[atodd]

The devil is in ALL the details, and if you think water, hops, malt and yeast are the details, you are SORELY mistaken.

But there must be many different varieties of Munich Helles, all using recipes and techniques that vary around a few core essential points. The key is finding out those essential points - not all the details, many of which might not matter so much.

RIGHT, hence.. The devil is in ALL the details 

Got any tips for a first time Helles brewer on what some of those details might be?

Depends, how authentic do you want it? Like sitting in Munich with one in hand. Or getting a "Helles" from some American brewery?

I am looking to bring myself back to Munich, i went last summer and it was incredibly eye opening how far off some American examples are.  I brewed Kai's Munich Dunkel (it is still has a few weeks to go) and am thinking of trying his Helles next but wouldn't mind any other tips and tricks.

[rabeb25]

To quote my mentor "If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it's OK to give it more time."

I have been chasing this for at least 10 years, with the last year being SERIOUS. Serious, as in Decoding German brewing texts, and getting in contact with some of most illusive people I have even seen. Brewing using methods most of the world has never heard of. For instance today I used the Kubessa Verfahren, which is a mash that you separate the husks from the starches, and utilize a decoction with the starches (fine and coarse grind) while maserating the husks in another mash. I have used malts that people know nothing about. The crazy things about it is, I was not alone. We formed a group, and are all driving after the same thing, brewing authentic German beers, Hell even the group, has a secret group!

The problem is, Americans brew German beers wrong, flat out. We were taught wrong, I am as guilty as the next guy. We always try to do it over the top, and that muddy's everything else. We use the wrong water, at the wrong pH, mash the wrong way, boil and hop wrong( the formulas are wrong), ferment wrong... I could seriously go on for hours. It took me a LONG time to get past it. That being said, I have yet to create what we coined 'it", "it" being that harmonious, out of body experience you get from tasting these fresh beers.

Sorry for the run on, but thats why I ask what you are out to create. If you are serious, this will not be the place for it, but I will get you where you need to be. As I said before you need to "be sheltered" from what you have been taught, and here is not the right place for that. Either way I respect it.

This post was fueled by my latest helles attempt, while brewing another

[Wort-H.O.G.]

To quote my mentor "If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it's OK to give it more time."

You forgot the T in Rembrandt...the devils in the details I hear 


Seriously-I hope you crack the code and then publish it.

[rabeb25]

To quote my mentor "If you allow me to paraphrase, you bought a canvas, paint and some brushes, learned about general composition of the old masters and drawn loads of caricatures of your teachers in class, but then expect to produce a work like Rembrand. The breweries spent generations of owners perfecting their recipes and art.  I think it's OK to give it more time."

You forgot the T in Rembrandt...the devils in the details I hear 


Seriously-I hope you crack the code and then publish it.

Ahh, indeed!

Problem is even if I did crack the code, no one would believe it or follow it! Which is why I think Kai, sort of vanished, he was on to something!

[hopfenundmalz]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

[rabeb25]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

this is one thing i have been doing also.

[AmandaK]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

What's the formula?

[rabeb25]

Do they mash at a higher pH, say 5.5-5.6, and then drop the pH in the kettle?

Yes, and there is a formula when you drop that pH in the kettle as well

What's the formula?

Ahh, its not that easy, it's out there.   

[klickitat jim]

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

[69franx]

Jim, don't forget to rinse and repeat as necessary

[HoosierBrew]

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

Yeah, that's my takeaway so far.

[klickitat jim]

Next Monday Im brewing an Helles, and an Helles Exportbier. Will be the 4th attempt at the Helles, trying to dial it in.

1.050 | 18 IBU
9.5 lbs Best Malz Pils
1.5 lbs Best Malz Vienna
Mashed at 145F for 2hrs, target 5.3pH adjusted with lactic per Brewers Friend, 50Ca 10Mg 8Na 50CaCl 0 SO4 107 HCO3
28g Mittelfruh @60
28g Mittelfruh @ 10
2 x 1000ml Wyeast 2308 high krausen pitches
50F
Final pH target 4.3
Cold fined with gel
Bottle conditioned at 2.7 volumes, then lager in cases at 38F for a month

I guess time will tell

[rabeb25]

So, step 1: find out how to brew a perfect Helles. Step 2: brew it. Roger that

Yeah, that's my takeaway so far.

If it were only that easy.  Knowing how is like 1/25 of it.

[hopfenundmalz]

Next Monday Im brewing an Helles, and an Helles Exportbier. Will be the 4th attempt at the Helles, trying to dial it in.

1.050 | 18 IBU
9.5 lbs Best Malz Pils
1.5 lbs Best Malz Vienna
Mashed at 145F for 2hrs, target 5.3pH adjusted with lactic per Brewers Friend, 50Ca 10Mg 8Na 50CaCl 0 SO4 107 HCO3
28g Mittelfruh @60
28g Mittelfruh @ 10
2 x 1000ml Wyeast 2308 high krausen pitches
50F
Final pH target 4.3
Cold fined with gel
Bottle conditioned at 2.7 volumes, then lager in cases at 38F for a month

I guess time will tell

If you enter competitions it will have too much hop flavor and aroma from the 10 minute additions according to the judges, who have probably never tasted a fresh Helles in Bayern. If you like it, drink up!