Author Topic: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles  (Read 28442 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2015, 09:52:11 PM »
Little bit of my IT. Thick creamy head, persists all the way to the last sip. Aroma of malt and noble hops. Rich malt taste balanced with noble hops, that finishes very dry and crisp.





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« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 09:55:12 PM by Wort-H.O.G. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2015, 09:57:26 PM »
Is this homebrewtalk forum?
Na Zdravie

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2015, 10:08:06 PM »
Is this homebrewtalk forum?
I would answer but have no idea what that means.


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« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:20:10 PM by Wort-H.O.G. »
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2015, 11:02:37 PM »
Little bit of my IT. Thick creamy head, persists all the way to the last sip. Aroma of malt and noble hops. Rich malt taste balanced with noble hops, that finishes very dry and crisp.





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Awesome looking beer. Is that your pils ?
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #124 on: November 12, 2015, 11:17:26 PM »
As near as I can tell from this thread, "IT" would not fit as an element of describing beer in Aroma, Appearance, Flavor, or Mouthfeel. "IT" might go under Overall Impression as an intangible. But it sounds to me that to describe "IT" you need a new category called Mindfeel. "Tastes like drinking beer in Munich" is an example description that, to me, pretty much sums up that this indescribable "IT" you guys are talking about only exists in the minds of a handfull of people who love going to Germany, and talking about that they have been to Germany. I can just about guarantee that I will never know what "IT" is because I will never find myself drinking beer in Germany. So there is zero reason for me to care whether or not my beer has "IT" in it, because I wouldn't know "IT" if "IT" was there.

But, for those who have been to Munich, and who want to recreate that mindfeel, cool. What better way to get your beer-geek on?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 11:21:20 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline charles1968

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2015, 11:44:41 PM »
I wonder if IT is in the gap between expectation and reality. It's really tough to clone a beer or nail a particular style when you've formed strong expectations about how it's going to taste. The first glass is inevitably going to taste wrong.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2015, 11:58:53 PM »
I wonder if IT is in the gap between expectation and reality. It's really tough to clone a beer or nail a particular style when you've formed strong expectations about how it's going to taste. The first glass is inevitably going to taste wrong.

I think there's some truth there. Forget about German beers for a minute - we've all tried to clone a favorite beer of some sort. Has anybody here actually nailed a perfect clone, indistinguishable from the target ?  I've been close on a few, but no dead ringers. I guess none of my clones has IT.
Jon H.

Offline narcout

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2015, 12:04:41 AM »
100% Best Pils malt, with WLP830 and 30-35 IBU gets you something like Bitburger, but no IT.

This is actually what I have fermenting right now (well 34/70 instead of White Labs).  I'll have to try to find some Bitburger for a side by side when it's ready.

I think I got lucky: cilantro tastes delicious, I can smell asparagus urine, I cannot easily taste diacetyl, I believe I can taste IT.
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Offline charles1968

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2015, 12:09:48 AM »
I wonder if IT is in the gap between expectation and reality. It's really tough to clone a beer or nail a particular style when you've formed strong expectations about how it's going to taste. The first glass is inevitably going to taste wrong.

See my post directly above. I am pretty certain that at the very least rabeb, germanbrew, and I have done side-by-sides at home and can pick out "it" blindly simply by the aroma alone.

That tells me you're trying to replicate particular beers, which I think is very difficult and usually leads to disappointment.

However, if "it" is something you can definitely smell, you can rule out all the things that only the mouth can detect: acidity, temperature, carbonation, sweetness/dryness, body, bitterness, minerality, maillard reaction compounds (at least the ones responsible for the "umami" taste). That leaves only aromatic qualities - likely from the yeast or the way malt is kilned, since hop aroma isn't difficult to get right.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:18:34 AM by charles1968 »

Offline charles1968

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2015, 12:12:24 AM »
Oh and I can taste cilantro, but we call it coriander in England (same name as the seeds).

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2015, 12:26:11 AM »

As near as I can tell from this thread, "IT" would not fit as an element of describing beer in Aroma, Appearance, Flavor, or Mouthfeel. "IT" might go under Overall Impression as an intangible. But it sounds to me that to describe "IT" you need a new category called Mindfeel. "Tastes like drinking beer in Munich" is an example description that, to me, pretty much sums up that this indescribable "IT" you guys are talking about only exists in the minds of a handfull of people who love going to Germany, and talking about that they have been to Germany. I can just about guarantee that I will never know what "IT" is because I will never find myself drinking beer in Germany. So there is zero reason for me to care whether or not my beer has "IT" in it, because I wouldn't know "IT" if "IT" was there.

But, for those who have been to Munich, and who want to recreate that mindfeel, cool. What better way to get your beer-geek on?

For the record- I don't think you have to go to Germany or anywhere other than the where you live. You know a good beer when you have it- no matter where your feet are planted!


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #131 on: November 13, 2015, 12:28:54 AM »
The trouble is that if a thing can not be described, there is no way of knowing what we're talking about, so how do you know if people can or can not detect it? At some point the discussion turns into a type of a mystic séance.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #132 on: November 13, 2015, 12:29:20 AM »

I wonder if IT is in the gap between expectation and reality. It's really tough to clone a beer or nail a particular style when you've formed strong expectations about how it's going to taste. The first glass is inevitably going to taste wrong.

I think there's some truth there. Forget about German beers for a minute - we've all tried to clone a favorite beer of some sort. Has anybody here actually nailed a perfect clone, indistinguishable from the target ?  I've been close on a few, but no dead ringers. I guess none of my clones has IT.
Nope- no dead ringers here. I've been using the coined phrase IT somewhat tongue and cheek . To me IT just means those things you really like about a certain beer, that you strive or want to produce for yourself.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #133 on: November 13, 2015, 12:32:57 AM »

The trouble is that if a thing can not be described, there is no way of knowing what we're talking about, so how do you know if people can or can not detect it? At some point the discussion turns into a type of a mystic séance.

I don't thinks it's as mystical as its being made out to be. Good process, yeast, hops and malt for whatever style your chasing to replicate.... That's my philosophy. As Jon said- most of us will never get that dead ringer- but close enough that you are proud and happy with results....that's the ticket for me.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #134 on: November 13, 2015, 12:33:38 AM »

As near as I can tell from this thread, "IT" would not fit as an element of describing beer in Aroma, Appearance, Flavor, or Mouthfeel. "IT" might go under Overall Impression as an intangible. But it sounds to me that to describe "IT" you need a new category called Mindfeel. "Tastes like drinking beer in Munich" is an example description that, to me, pretty much sums up that this indescribable "IT" you guys are talking about only exists in the minds of a handfull of people who love going to Germany, and talking about that they have been to Germany. I can just about guarantee that I will never know what "IT" is because I will never find myself drinking beer in Germany. So there is zero reason for me to care whether or not my beer has "IT" in it, because I wouldn't know "IT" if "IT" was there.

But, for those who have been to Munich, and who want to recreate that mindfeel, cool. What better way to get your beer-geek on?

For the record- I don't think you have to go to Germany or anywhere other than the where you live. You know a good beer when you have it- no matter where your feet are planted!


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Agreed. But to be able to say that a beer tastes like drinking a beer in Munich...