Author Topic: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles  (Read 26192 times)

Offline narcout

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #285 on: December 16, 2015, 08:49:27 PM »
Wyeast 2352 Munich II, I've fallen in love with that stuff. Just my luck it's a seasonal.

I like this yeast as well.  I have a pack in the fridge I am planning to use in a Munich Dunkel next month.

Beer and brewing did an article on it a while back.  The link to it seems to be missing or corrupt, but here is a repost of the article:  https://hellbach.us/blog/food-drink/beer/carapils-the-most-misunderstood-malt/

I did not know that; thanks for posting.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 06:00:32 PM by narcout »
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Ancient Abbey

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Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #286 on: December 16, 2015, 11:09:44 PM »
Tell us why 835 Lager X (Kloster Andechs), and 860 (some say it is Augustiner's yeast) are not Bavarian strains?




- 835 and 860 are my favorite strains so far.  Bavarian strains (833, 838, 860) tend to produce a bit of a grape fruitiness, which I get in some commercial examples. WLP830 makes a nice beer, but is better suited for pilsners IMO. 


I don't believe I said they weren't.

The wording can be interpreted that those are not in the second group called Bavarian.

I listed 860 in parentheses as a Bavarian strain.  It's in the first and second group.
i missed that, do you like the grape esters? I find those in Bocks often.

It's really interesting that you say that.  I used to associate that grape character with a malt ester associated with pilsner malt.  However, this summer I did a helles side-by-side (split batch wort) with 830 and 833, and sure enough the bock yeast (833) had that grape note and the 830 did not.  So, I'm leaning towards it being a yeast ester.  Interestingly, I also get it from kolsch yeast. 

Yes, I do like it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 01:38:40 AM by Ancient Abbey »

Offline JT

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #287 on: December 17, 2015, 05:13:30 AM »

The mention of this beer prompted a purchase tonight, though not in a can it is within date and was cold stored.  Delicious.  I guess I'm in the camp that needs to compare this side by side with other beers to find and put my finger on IT though. 
All in all, pretty entertaining and (at times) educational thread.  I officially have the German/Czech bug and will be brewing one shortly. 

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Offline atodd

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #288 on: December 17, 2015, 04:38:22 PM »
- beta acids are often overlooked.  I listened to a podcast with John Palmer where he said beta acids were more important than alpha acids for authentic german flavor.  I started paying more attention to the beta content in noble hops, and wow, they are really high compared to American and British hops.  I used to avoid low AA hops in favor of high AA hops, as I wanted as little vegetative material extracted as possible.  However, I noticed I enjoyed the flavor of low AA hop (Mittlefurh 2% alpha, 5% beta) that has more beta acids as opposed to using a very small amount of a high AA hop (Magnum).  The foam seemed considerably more stable and long lasting too. 


I find this interesting and look forward to trying it, my first Helles used magnum at the 60 min mark but when I brew it again I will use a lower AA hop.  Thanks for all the great info you provided I look forward to incorporate it in my next Helles.

Offline Iliff Ave Brewhouse

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #289 on: December 17, 2015, 04:43:15 PM »
- beta acids are often overlooked.  I listened to a podcast with John Palmer where he said beta acids were more important than alpha acids for authentic german flavor.  I started paying more attention to the beta content in noble hops, and wow, they are really high compared to American and British hops.  I used to avoid low AA hops in favor of high AA hops, as I wanted as little vegetative material extracted as possible.  However, I noticed I enjoyed the flavor of low AA hop (Mittlefurh 2% alpha, 5% beta) that has more beta acids as opposed to using a very small amount of a high AA hop (Magnum).  The foam seemed considerably more stable and long lasting too. 


I find this interesting and look forward to trying it, my first Helles used magnum at the 60 min mark but when I brew it again I will use a lower AA hop.  Thanks for all the great info you provided I look forward to incorporate it in my next Helles.

For a kolsch, someone recommended using noble hops for a huge FWH hop addition only. I had previously been using magnum. The change was huge and go me closer to 'it'.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 04:46:21 PM by goschman »
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Offline stpug

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #290 on: December 17, 2015, 04:56:06 PM »
The term "it" for a characteristic about a beer sounds so dumb (and snobby) to me.

Ohhh, this beer has "it".
I drank a beer last night that had "it".
My beer is getting closer to having "it".
"It" is too complex to describe in human words that I just call it, "it".

If nothing else, says it's that German quality or German character or kickass smoothness.

My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers :D

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #291 on: December 17, 2015, 06:18:35 PM »
Narziß has stated that German beer has lost complexity due to hop extract or high Alpha hops being used. Noble hops in three additions is what he advocates.
http://refreshingbeer.blogspot.no/2014/11/narziss-slams-state-of-german-brewing.html
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Offline beersk

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #292 on: December 17, 2015, 06:28:35 PM »
Narziß has stated that German beer has lost complexity due to hop extract or high Alpha hops being used. Noble hops in three additions is what he advocates.
http://refreshingbeer.blogspot.no/2014/11/narziss-slams-state-of-german-brewing.html
Interesting. I've been using magnum to bitter, the idea being using less of a high alpha hop to minimize vegetal matter in the wort.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #293 on: December 17, 2015, 06:40:27 PM »
Narziß has stated that German beer has lost complexity due to hop extract or high Alpha hops being used. Noble hops in three additions is what he advocates.
http://refreshingbeer.blogspot.no/2014/11/narziss-slams-state-of-german-brewing.html
Interesting. I've been using magnum to bitter, the idea being using less of a high alpha hop to minimize vegetal matter in the wort.

many of us have done the same....
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #294 on: December 17, 2015, 06:44:13 PM »
I've been the Magnum king for years on lagers, using the 'vegetal mass' argument. I need to start bittering with nobles again.
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #295 on: December 17, 2015, 06:45:19 PM »
The term "it" for a characteristic about a beer sounds so dumb (and snobby) to me.

Ohhh, this beer has "it".
I drank a beer last night that had "it".
My beer is getting closer to having "it".
"It" is too complex to describe in human words that I just call it, "it".

If nothing else, says it's that German quality or German character or kickass smoothness.

My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers :D
I think you'll find that we all agree with you.  "It" comes from a dead or dying thread, kind of like It Came From the Swamp.
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Offline mchrispen

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #296 on: December 17, 2015, 06:52:53 PM »
Fascinating!
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Offline beersk

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #297 on: December 17, 2015, 09:21:49 PM »
The term "it" for a characteristic about a beer sounds so dumb (and snobby) to me.

Ohhh, this beer has "it".
I drank a beer last night that had "it".
My beer is getting closer to having "it".
"It" is too complex to describe in human words that I just call it, "it".

If nothing else, says it's that German quality or German character or kickass smoothness.

My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers :D
I think you'll find that we all agree with you.  "It" comes from a dead or dying thread, kind of like It Came From the Swamp.
I refer to it as the German lager flavor or German beer flavor, as I referred to it in that thread that Amanda alluded to several pages back from 2012. It's most present in lagers, I think.

And I think I'll now stop using magnums to bitter...I do like first wort hopping though. So maybe a FWH and then an addition at 60 would be good.
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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #298 on: December 21, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
The term "it" for a characteristic about a beer sounds so dumb (and snobby) to me.

Ohhh, this beer has "it".
I drank a beer last night that had "it".
My beer is getting closer to having "it".
"It" is too complex to describe in human words that I just call it, "it".

If nothing else, says it's that German quality or German character or kickass smoothness.

My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers :D
I think you'll find that we all agree with you.  "It" comes from a dead or dying thread, kind of like It Came From the Swamp.
I refer to it as the German lager flavor or German beer flavor, as I referred to it in that thread that Amanda alluded to several pages back from 2012. It's most present in lagers, I think.



Indeed.. My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers.

RPIScotty

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Re: Chasing the perfect Munich Helles
« Reply #299 on: December 21, 2015, 08:51:30 PM »

The term "it" for a characteristic about a beer sounds so dumb (and snobby) to me.

Ohhh, this beer has "it".
I drank a beer last night that had "it".
My beer is getting closer to having "it".
"It" is too complex to describe in human words that I just call it, "it".

If nothing else, says it's that German quality or German character or kickass smoothness.

My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers :D
I think you'll find that we all agree with you.  "It" comes from a dead or dying thread, kind of like It Came From the Swamp.
I refer to it as the German lager flavor or German beer flavor, as I referred to it in that thread that Amanda alluded to several pages back from 2012. It's most present in lagers, I think.



Indeed.. My beer has that "kickass smoothness" that you find in quality German beers.

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