[Iliff Ave]

Hey guys.

Although I really like it, I would like to tweak my American wheat recipe. My current recipe is too clean with not enough wheat character. In a comp, the judges feedback was that they liked it a lot but it didn't fit in the American Wheat category. They are right so I want to make something that is a little more to style.

Current recipe is:
50% german pilsner
40% rahr white wheat
10% flaked wheat

US05

I realize a lot of things that can be changed to get me in the right ballpark; namely yeast along with swapping the pilsner malt for two row and finding a different wheat maltster. I do really like the pilsner malt character so I am thinking of keeping it. Again, I am just looking to tweak here and there. How does this look?

50% wheat (not Rahr?)
40% pilsner
10% munich 6L

I am hoping the munich will add a bit of malty character which compliments the wheat. I will probably use US05 at first and then experiment with WY1010, WY2565, or something with more character for future iterations. Any feedback?

The original does have orange zest and coriander added. I am thinking of cutting this amount in half as well as changing the hops slightly.

[jeffy]

Perhaps the judges made their comments as to style because of the added spices.  Usually American Wheat beers do not have spices like Belgian Witbiers.  If you intend to enter it in a competition, it may score better as an Herb/Spice/Veg beer.  If you want it to fit in the A.W. style, then cut out the spices.
If not entering a competition, then make adjustments as to the flavors you want to change or enhance.

[dmtaylor]

Here's a couple of ideas:

Use 100% wheat malt.  Skip the pilsner.  See what happens.

Use Wyeast 1007.  It gives a lusciously bready flavor that I'm sure would be very appealing in a wheat beer.

Go easy on hops.  Don't use any C hops.  Stick with noble.

Go easy on spices.  Figure out how much you think you want to use... then use about 1/3 as much and see where that gets you.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks. I am not worried about putting this in a competition. I just did for the hell of it. I will have to go back and look at the comments but from what I remember the lack of wheat character was more of a critique vs. the presence of spices. The goal is to back those down to barely detectable.

Using 100% wheat malt scares me but maybe I will up the amount. Any other advice regarding the grains specifically the munich? Again, I am just trying to adjust my main recipe without starting from scratch. If I was starting from scratch I would probably just go 60% wheat, 40% two row and call it good.

I am going to add some noble hops in along with my american hops.

[pete b]

If I think about how I would make an "American" wheat I guess what that would mean to me is clean fermentation, at least a bit of American hops aroma, and like anything American, the main flavor, wheat, should not be subtle. I would not add spices because they are present in Belgians to enhance the spicy yeast notes and wouldn't be appropriate in an American. I think I might go more like 65-70% wheat, and use Vienna instead of munich. I might dry hop and or whirlpool with a modest amount of cascade.

[Iliff Ave]

If I think about how I would make an "American" wheat I guess what that would mean to me is clean fermentation, at least a bit of American hops aroma, and like anything American, the main flavor, wheat, should not be subtle. I would not add spices because they are present in Belgians to enhance the spicy phenols and wouldn't be appropriate in an American. I think I might go more like 65-70% wheat, and use Vienna instead of munich. I might dry hop and or whirlpool with a modest amount of cascade.

Thanks! When you say use vienna instead of munich, at what amount? The 10% I have? I do a wheat/rye type beer that is 50% vienna, 35% wheat, 15% rye so I can imagine how vienna would work.

The current recipe bitters with magnum then has Willamette, Cascade, and Amarillo thrown in incrementally after 20 minutes remaining. I am considering replacing the Willamette with something noble at 20 minutes and doing the Cascade/Amarillo at 5 min.

[pete b]

If I think about how I would make an "American" wheat I guess what that would mean to me is clean fermentation, at least a bit of American hops aroma, and like anything American, the main flavor, wheat, should not be subtle. I would not add spices because they are present in Belgians to enhance the spicy phenols and wouldn't be appropriate in an American. I think I might go more like 65-70% wheat, and use Vienna instead of munich. I might dry hop and or whirlpool with a modest amount of cascade.

Thanks! When you say use vienna instead of munich, at what amount? The 10% I have? I do a wheat/rye type beer that is 50% vienna, 35% wheat, 15% rye so I can imagine how vienna would work.

I was imagining at the same percentage, just swapping for the munich but I would be interested in say 70% wheat, 30% Vienna. I just think that the untoasted breadiness of the Vienna would be nice here. I think that you, having made and tasted your last version would be in the best place to make the call on percentage.

[Iliff Ave]

If I think about how I would make an "American" wheat I guess what that would mean to me is clean fermentation, at least a bit of American hops aroma, and like anything American, the main flavor, wheat, should not be subtle. I would not add spices because they are present in Belgians to enhance the spicy phenols and wouldn't be appropriate in an American. I think I might go more like 65-70% wheat, and use Vienna instead of munich. I might dry hop and or whirlpool with a modest amount of cascade.

Thanks! When you say use vienna instead of munich, at what amount? The 10% I have? I do a wheat/rye type beer that is 50% vienna, 35% wheat, 15% rye so I can imagine how vienna would work.

I was imagining at the same percentage, just swapping for the munich but I would be interested in say 70% wheat, 30% Vienna. I just think that the untoasted breadiness of the Vienna would be nice here. I think that you, having made and tasted your last version would be in the best place to make the call on percentage.

Ok. Now I am officially going down the rabbit hole...

This is sounding good to me.
60% wheat
30% pilsner
10% vienna

7 g Magnum 60 min
14 g Spalt 20 min
14 g Cascade/Amarillo 5 min

US05
1.047
18 IBU

[reverseapachemaster]

Think about trying to find red wheat rather than white wheat. I find white wheat is often less flavorful and more doughy. It tends to get lost in a beer. Red wheat has more of what you think of wheat flavor.

[Iliff Ave]

Think about trying to find red wheat rather than white wheat. I find white wheat is often less flavorful and more doughy. It tends to get lost in a beer. Red wheat has more of what you think of wheat flavor.

Which maltsters produce Red Wheat? I think I have only ever seen it flaked.

I think my LHBS only has Rahr and maybe Weyermann pale wheat. If they do in fact have red wheat, I will give that a try. If not, I will go with the weyermann.

[pete b]

Think about trying to find red wheat rather than white wheat. I find white wheat is often less flavorful and more doughy. It tends to get lost in a beer. Red wheat has more of what you think of wheat flavor.

That's good info. I had meant to suggest (because I don't know much myself) that you do a little research about the optimal type of wheat malt and maltster.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks for the input all. I think I am in a good direction now. I just need to decide how much 'essence' of the original I want to keep or if I just want to do something completely different and more appropriate.

I will also change my water a bit. The original was yellow balanced profile with a mash pH below 5.3 I believe. It was quite crisp. I will probably go with yellow malty and a 5.4 mash pH.

[curtism1234]

I really like Red Wheat and Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner

Even if the judges still aren't happy, they will both up the overall quality of your beers.

[Iliff Ave]

I really like Red Wheat and Weyermann Bohemian Pilsner

Even if the judges still aren't happy, they will both up the overall quality of your beers.

Thanks. I will see what I can find. I am pretty loyal to my LHBS and I don't think they carry either of those malts. They carry Weyermann specialty malts but not base malts I believe.