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Author Topic: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum  (Read 85148 times)

Offline Phil_M

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #375 on: April 29, 2016, 02:25:09 pm »

Did you say mill? This is German, many craft breweries have these. Sierra Nevada, Bells, Firestone Walker to name three. I remember from Sierra Nevada Beer Camp back in 2009, they said they were milling under N2.

http://www.gea.com/global/en/binaries/MILLSTAR_0813_EN_tcm11-12176.pdf

Is that done for freshness? Or for safety? Grain dust is a major fire hazard, milling under an inert gas would prevent a far more explosive form or oxidation.
Corn is a fine adjunct in beer.

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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #376 on: April 29, 2016, 02:59:26 pm »
Damn it, I came up with the idea of nitrogen flushing the mill about three pages ago, but couldn't get through the posts quickly enough to avoid being scooped on that suggestion!
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Offline narcout

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #377 on: April 29, 2016, 03:00:44 pm »

Did you say mill? This is German, many craft breweries have these. Sierra Nevada, Bells, Firestone Walker to name three. I remember from Sierra Nevada Beer Camp back in 2009, they said they were milling under N2.

http://www.gea.com/global/en/binaries/MILLSTAR_0813_EN_tcm11-12176.pdf

There is quite a bit in that marketing brochure about minimizing contact with oxygen.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #378 on: April 29, 2016, 03:01:41 pm »

Did you say mill? This is German, many craft breweries have these. Sierra Nevada, Bells, Firestone Walker to name three. I remember from Sierra Nevada Beer Camp back in 2009, they said they were milling under N2.

http://www.gea.com/global/en/binaries/MILLSTAR_0813_EN_tcm11-12176.pdf

Is that done for freshness? Or for safety? Grain dust is a major fire hazard, milling under an inert gas would prevent a far more explosive form or oxidation.

It is optional if you look at the file. Wet milling means no dust, so no explosion. So it is done to keep O2 out.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #379 on: April 29, 2016, 03:03:06 pm »

Did you say mill? This is German, many craft breweries have these. Sierra Nevada, Bells, Firestone Walker to name three. I remember from Sierra Nevada Beer Camp back in 2009, they said they were milling under N2.

http://www.gea.com/global/en/binaries/MILLSTAR_0813_EN_tcm11-12176.pdf

There is quite a bit in that marketing brochure about minimizing contact with oxygen.

Yah think? Yeah. I wonder what brewhouse Augustiner has?
Jeff Rankert
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BJCP National
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

trentm

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #380 on: April 29, 2016, 05:36:10 pm »
When malting my grain, I use potassium metabisulfite and hydrogen peroxide during the steeping phase.  It kills all the bad guys and leaves the grain fluffy (and bleached).  Never had a problem with malt aroma.  Of course one should always use a small! amount! of high alpha hops and a small! amount! of flavor/aroma hops.  My beers always have "it".  ;)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 05:50:14 pm by trentm »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #381 on: April 29, 2016, 06:30:30 pm »
Maybe I need one of these for a mill room?

trentm

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #382 on: April 29, 2016, 06:46:25 pm »
Maybe I need one of these for a mill room?

A hyperbaric chamber with 100% oxygen?  Going against the grain again eh?  BTW, you're paying too much, should only be around 14k :) (Unless you really are wheelchair bound.)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 06:50:28 pm by trentm »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #383 on: April 29, 2016, 07:08:44 pm »
Ya but you get what you pay for. The oxygen side would be for prepitch. This way you wouldn't need an oxygenation stone,  just splash it around in the pure o2 environment. For milling and mashing you would need to switch it to pure nitrogen.

trentm

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #384 on: April 29, 2016, 07:25:49 pm »
Ya but you get what you pay for. The oxygen side would be for prepitch. This way you wouldn't need an oxygenation stone,  just splash it around in the pure o2 environment. For milling and mashing you would need to switch it to pure nitrogen.

A pure nitrogen environment?  So you're going to mill and mash in your space suit?  How much did that cost you? ;)

Offline PrettyBeard

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #385 on: April 29, 2016, 07:44:36 pm »
When malting my grain, I use potassium metabisulfite and hydrogen peroxide during the steeping phase.  It kills all the bad guys and leaves the grain fluffy (and bleached).  Never had a problem with malt aroma.  Of course one should always use a small! amount! of high alpha hops and a small! amount! of flavor/aroma hops.  My beers always have "it".  ;)

Peroxide?  Isn't that a stronger oxidizer then O2?

I mean at one point I was thinking, If your grain bed isn't on fire, and you aren't running peroxide, nitrous, or some other strong oxidizer through it, you really can't oxidize any amino acids, sugars or starches.  Then I looked around a bit more and found that the problem was fatty acids...

Mash in a modified Sanke keg purged with Nitrogen, or better yet Argon.  Boil is a pressure cooker, likewise purged.  Use an inline chiller to transfer to fermentation vessel to avoid all Oxygenation prior to reaching pitch temp.  Simple right?

The whole thing is silly, there is enough air trapped in your grist to reach saturation in your strike water and plenty of surface area for dissolution to occur across.  The campden tablet is the only thing that seems to make any sense at all, and then wouldn't you be creating sulfides rather then oxides anyway (or would they replace peroxides...)?

Can you please expound on your gas choices?  IE why argon over nitro or CO2.  Heavier/safer/cheaper?  I am curious if purging mill setup/cooler/kettle would also be worthwhile...

Argon, if a noble gas is good enough to stop oxidation of molten Aluminium it's good enough for beer.  N2 might be cheaper (it's used more in food processing since neither aerobic nor anaerobic critters will grow in it), but could react with something, maybe, kinda...  CO2 has that nasty O2 component, and there is no kill like overkill!

As for worthwhile, I mean I have a cylinder of Ar for my TIG so that's not really much of an extra cost to me, but it's not cheap.  More so if you have to buy a cylinder as well.  But yeah flushing the whole process up to chilling was my idea.  If you REALLY want to stop oxygen contact that is.  The bigger issue would be converting a 16g keg into a mash tun and finding a way to get the spent grain out after it's done, or finding a big enough sealable boil kettle.

Hmm... I suppose you could lauter to an Ar flushed corny, then scrub out and re-flush the 16g (or use a separate 8g negative pressure sealed keg), throw that over your burner and rig up some kind of airlock system for hop additions, and . . .  yeah this is getting ridiculous.  ::)

But if you really want to avoid HSA, Argon is the way to go. ;D

narvin

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #386 on: April 30, 2016, 05:12:37 am »
We could combine this new obsession with zero oxygen and the brewing in a vacuum thread and try making beer... In space.

You'd have to watch out for the ionizing radiation though.

RPIScotty

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #387 on: April 30, 2016, 05:32:58 am »
We could combine this new obsession with zero oxygen and the brewing in a vacuum thread and try making beer... In space.

You'd have to watch out for the ionizing radiation though.

I've heard that close proximity to solar flares and dark matter has effects on foam stability.

trentm

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #388 on: April 30, 2016, 07:04:33 am »
When malting my grain, I use potassium metabisulfite and hydrogen peroxide during the steeping phase.  It kills all the bad guys and leaves the grain fluffy (and bleached).  Never had a problem with malt aroma.  Of course one should always use a small! amount! of high alpha hops and a small! amount! of flavor/aroma hops.  My beers always have "it".  ;)

Peroxide?  Isn't that a stronger oxidizer then O2?

I mean at one point I was thinking, If your grain bed isn't on fire, and you aren't running peroxide, nitrous, or some other strong oxidizer through it, you really can't oxidize any amino acids, sugars or starches.  Then I looked around a bit more and found that the problem was fatty acids...


Malting.  Is the term I used.  Not Mashing.

Offline PrettyBeard

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Re: New German Only(Brewing) site and forum
« Reply #389 on: April 30, 2016, 07:16:27 am »
Malting.  Is the term I used.  Not Mashing.

Whoops, might have had one too many last night.