[HoosierBrew]

I don't have a way to underlet my mash though. Might be a future upgrade. For now, I've been siphoning my water into my kettle for heating and into my mashtun from the kettle and doughing in very carefully.

I don't either for now. I'm gonna use the Brewtan B (when it gets here) in the mash water after boiling and cooling. I'll cap the mash with Saran and call it good. Don't have a spunding valve (yet) so it'll just go into a purged keg. I have to believe it'll help shelf life at the least but I guess we'll see. Curious to see 'is it better?' vs "same but stays fresh longer' vs 'no change at all'.

[denny]

I used tin foil for my last batch. Kind of wondering if aluminium shouldn't be used though...but it seemed like an easy solution. I have seran wrap as well. I don't have a way to underlet my mash though. Might be a future upgrade. For now, I've been siphoning my water into my kettle for heating and into my mashtun from the kettle and doughing in very carefully. I'm just hoping that it makes SOME amount of difference to limit the O2 pickup and not just an all-or-nothing sort of thing. I can't imagine water saturated with 2ppm O2 versus 8ppm O2 would give the same results, but who knows...seems like the less O2 saturation the better malt flavors there would be, as opposed to 0ppm versus, say, 1ppm being the difference between great and oxidized. There has to be some gray area...

Why would the foil be a problem  And will you do back to back batches with blind tasting to evaluate?

[narcout]

I tried the lodo mini mash test this afternoon, but I made a huge and embarrassing error (added 10 times as much SMB as I was supposed to) so I don't have any results to report. 

I did learn a few things just about the general process of trying to mash small amounts of grain in mason jars though which should help me run a better experiment next time.  It's probably going to be a few weeks before I get around to trying this again, but I fully intend to.

[beersk]

I used tin foil for my last batch. Kind of wondering if aluminium shouldn't be used though...but it seemed like an easy solution. I have seran wrap as well. I don't have a way to underlet my mash though. Might be a future upgrade. For now, I've been siphoning my water into my kettle for heating and into my mashtun from the kettle and doughing in very carefully. I'm just hoping that it makes SOME amount of difference to limit the O2 pickup and not just an all-or-nothing sort of thing. I can't imagine water saturated with 2ppm O2 versus 8ppm O2 would give the same results, but who knows...seems like the less O2 saturation the better malt flavors there would be, as opposed to 0ppm versus, say, 1ppm being the difference between great and oxidized. There has to be some gray area...

Why would the foil be a problem  And will you do back to back batches with blind tasting to evaluate?

What you're suggesting I do is brew, say, two 2.5 gallon batches, do everything I can to minimize O2 pickup for one and do what I normally do for the other batch, test them in a blind triangle test to see if they're different?
Jon had a good way of putting it at the end of his last post.

Tin foil...aluminum...I don't know, just seems like maybe there'd be a reason why that'd be bad to do...if not, then it's perfect; foil fits perfectly in my mash tun.

[erockrph]

Tin foil...aluminum...I don't know, just seems like maybe there'd be a reason why that'd be bad to do...if not, then it's perfect; foil fits perfectly in my mash tun.

Acid can leach aluminum, but I don't think mash pH is low enough where that would be a concern. My concern is just that I wouldn't expect aluminum foil to be air-tight. I can't see how it would provide any more protection from O2 than the lid of a cooler. I think that plastic wrap would be a much more effective option.



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[mpietropaoli]

I think headspace is the concern.  Aluminum will put a barrier right at the top of the liquid/grist line

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[mchrispen]

And will you do back to back batches with blind tasting to evaluate?

Working on it Denny. I fubar'd my first attempt (a story for over a beer). So doing a Koelsch instead. LODO today, normal method (but carefully handled transfers, etc.) later this week.


FYI, pre-boiling the SMB dose for the strike and sparge, then adding that into the appropriate step should allow one to ensure the basic water composition (sodium @ 24 ppm, sulfite and sulfates) can be isolated by just using a small measure of calcium chloride. Because the sulfite doesn't totally decompose (it seems to mostly) into sulfate in the mash, it is difficult to estimate the resulting sulfate level. Sulfites seem to be tricky as well as yeast produce sulfites during fermentation, and would be strain specific (the strips work, but aren't precise). But with identical recipes, water profiles, mash profiles, boil and fermentation steps, I should be able to isolate SMB protection and non-SMB protection. I am collecting data (pH and O2) along each step.


Will see. It is cutting things close to bring samples to NHC. I hope to capture triangle evaluations at a couple of local home-brew clubs and sensory from some trusted commercial brewers.

[hopfenundmalz]

Tin foil...aluminum...I don't know, just seems like maybe there'd be a reason why that'd be bad to do...if not, then it's perfect; foil fits perfectly in my mash tun.

Acid can leach aluminum, but I don't think mash pH is low enough where that would be a concern. My concern is just that I wouldn't expect aluminum foil to be air-tight. I can't see how it would provide any more protection from O2 than the lid of a cooler. I think that plastic wrap would be a much more effective option.



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[mabrungard]

I have used some of that aluminum-backed, bubble-wrap insulation as a floating cover on my mashes for over a decade. I originally employed it as an insulator to help retain heat, but it also serves to isolate from atmospheric contact. Was I ahead of my time??

[troybinso]

I have used some of that aluminum-backed, bubble-wrap insulation as a floating cover on my mashes for over a decade. I originally employed it as an insulator to help retain heat, but it also serves to isolate from atmospheric contact. Was I ahead of my time??

I've used that as a lid for my mash tun, but over time I've noticed the moisture deforms the product. How does your floating cover look after a decade?

[mabrungard]

My tun has about a 1 foot ID and the sheet of the bubble insulation doesn't seem to have deformed. I've always placed the plastic side down on the wort, so the aluminum side has always been up. That aluminum has come off of many places, but the insulation is otherwise intact.

[beersk]

Good to know that foil is probably okay, I may keep using that method for now. Like Peter said, it's probably good enough of a barrier.

[dmtaylor]

Apparently I have somehow been entirely ignorant and perhaps noticeably absent regarding all this talk about deoxygenated water.

Until today.  Today I wasted hours reading up on all this sh!t.  And that is my tentative conclusion: it is sh!t.

The pseudo science and recommended practice of a 30 minute protein rest killed it for me, not to mention that a friend of mine can achieve "it" with a single infusion and nothing special other than using continental malt, hops, and the right yeast.

Yes, I know what "it" is, and I love and crave "it".  I think maybe I even can get close to "it" in my own beers.  However this all also leads me to believe that there's little if any need to futz with this secretive fake sciency LODO and Brewtan stuff.

I will let you guys run these experiments while I continue to play with "regular" decoction and efficiency.  Results coming soon/eventually on my triangles.

[brewinhard]

Apparently I have somehow been entirely ignorant and perhaps noticeably absent regarding all this talk about deoxygenated water.

Until today.  Today I wasted hours reading up on all this sh!t.  And that is my tentative conclusion: it is sh!t.

The pseudo science and recommended practice of a 30 minute protein rest killed it for me, not to mention that a friend of mine can achieve "it" with a single infusion and nothing special other than using continental malt, hops, and the right yeast.

Yes, I know what "it" is, and I love and crave "it".  I think maybe I even can get close to "it" in my own beers.  However this all also leads me to believe that there's little if any need to futz with this secretive fake sciency LODO and Brewtan stuff.

I will let you guys run these experiments while I continue to play with "regular" decoction and efficiency.  Results coming soon/eventually on my triangles.

There ya go buddy! Now we're talkin...

[Big Monk]

Apparently I have somehow been entirely ignorant and perhaps noticeably absent regarding all this talk about deoxygenated water.

Until today.  Today I wasted hours reading up on all this sh!t.  And that is my tentative conclusion: it is sh!t.

The pseudo science and recommended practice of a 30 minute protein rest killed it for me, not to mention that a friend of mine can achieve "it" with a single infusion and nothing special other than using continental malt, hops, and the right yeast.

Yes, I know what "it" is, and I love and crave "it".  I think maybe I even can get close to "it" in my own beers.  However this all also leads me to believe that there's little if any need to futz with this secretive fake sciency LODO and Brewtan stuff.

I will let you guys run these experiments while I continue to play with "regular" decoction and efficiency.  Results coming soon/eventually on my triangles.

I'm not 100% sure what distorted form of Low O2 brewing you were introduced to but it sounds like you have your mind made up.

I would contend there is nothing all that secretive, fake or too "sciency" about any of it.

I would say deoxygenating brewing water is an industry standard being practiced in all major macro breweries.

I would say I can't imagine why you've linked protein rests with any materials detailing low oxygen mashing, whether it be the GBF paper, readily available German brewing texts, etc.

I would say that digging into academic papers and brewing texts would lead you to surmise that you DEFINITELY, under the right circumstances (process wise), achieve great flavor using single infusion.

I would say I can't understand why it's still an issue if certain people want to brew a certain way and others don't.

I would say it's not a knock to say that the "Cheap'N'Easy" way of brewing is not for everyone. Some crave academic texts, more involved brewing systems and applications from the commercial world to brewing at home.

I won't say I agree with your tone and general disposition. It's time for the animosity to cease. Take information on its merits or leave it alone. Everyone is an adult here. I hope. Constantly stirring the pot may keep the sauce off the sides but leaving it in there too long wrecks the flavor.

I say this as a person who vehemently opposed the whole lot of the Low O2 concepts in previous times.

I'll say this in closing, with no nastiness or disrespect meant at all: just because one doesn't fully comprehend the scope, background and science behind a method, or collection of methods, doesn't mean it's s***. It just means that there is an opportunity for a learning experience if one so desires.