Author Topic: oxygenation tips  (Read 3288 times)

Offline zombywoof

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 12:27:50 PM »
The beers have been fine, so I may have overstated the temp a wee bit!  This summer has been hot and my chiller only gets it down to those temps, by the time I get it into the carboy and get my self together it's probably closer to 70 - 73, not sure. Guess I should actually check next batch. I could wait longer in my basement which is cooler.

Offline saintpierre

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 12:32:18 PM »
I use a mix-stir rod with an electric drill. It incorporates alot of air in a short amount of time. I find that this method works well for me.

I use this method too but I have a mix rod with two fans on it attached to the rod with a pin.  The mix rod fits inside a carboy and when I run the drill the centrifugal force opens the fans.
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Offline ndcube

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2010, 12:34:39 PM »
The beers have been fine, so I may have overstated the temp a wee bit!  This summer has been hot and my chiller only gets it down to those temps, by the time I get it into the carboy and get my self together it's probably closer to 70 - 73, not sure. Guess I should actually check next batch. I could wait longer in my basement which is cooler.

Sounds like it's time for a swamp cooler.

Offline bschwoer

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2010, 05:50:49 PM »
Check out Wyeast's technical information on their website for home enthusiasts.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_techinfo.cfm

They have done studies on different techniques to oxygenate wort.  Their conclusions state that the highest concentration of oxygen a homebrewer can achieve without injecting pure oxygen is 8 ppm.  Their studies also show that splashing and shaking the wort will achieve the same concentration as an aquarium pump with stone.  They conclude the aquarium pump and stone is not an efficient way to dissolve oxygen.

Wyeast also says 10 ppm is a sufficient level of oxygen in most situations.  Bigger beers (higher original gravity) will generally do better with higher levels of DO (dissolved oxygen) to achieve higher attenuation.
Brent

Offline gimmeales

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2010, 09:55:44 AM »
my oxygenation technique includes the smallest drop of olive oil possible (tip of a guitar string dipped in the OO) in the starter container on the morning of brewday, then quietly siphon wort into fermenter, pitch yeast  :)

Offline IHBHS

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2010, 11:34:32 AM »
For Oxygenation, I use More Beers oxygenation system with a 1.4oz O2 bottle.  I made an inline oxygenation setup out of a T compression fittings and a couple barb fittings so that the stone sits inside the T and it oxygenates the wort as i am pumping it into the fermenter.  No problem with foaming and the beer has turned out really well.
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Offline hopaddicted

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2010, 08:14:39 PM »
The other issue with aerating/oxygenating on the hot side is the oxygen came bond back onto other particles while hot, though cannot while it is at pitching temps (think about 100 degrees was the threshold, but I'll try to dig up the source).

I just dump or siphon through a fine SS mesh for aeration, need to look at a better method.
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2010, 06:55:05 AM »
I use the ss rod with scintilated stone attached to the rod. This allows me to get the stone
easily to the bottom of the fermenter.  I use medical O2 and gas the heck out of the wert.

I give the scintillated "ss stone" a good soak in everclear b4 and after each use. That seems to me to
be the thing for removing bugs in the stone without pressure cooking....but one day I may have to
pressure cook the stone just for peace of mind.
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Offline zombywoof

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2010, 12:41:45 PM »
1vertical, how long do you typically "gas" the wort? I typically go anywhere from 60 sec to 80 sec. I've heard you can go into several minutes for big beers.

Offline wingnut

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2010, 12:59:43 PM »
my oxygenation technique includes the smallest drop of olive oil possible (tip of a guitar string dipped in the OO) in the starter container on the morning of brewday, then quietly siphon wort into fermenter, pitch yeast  :)

Since you are makeing good beer, take my comment for what it is worth....

However, I have a hard time getting my head around how the sterols in the small drop of floating olive oil is going to come in contact to ALL the yeast floating around, giving them a chance to adsorb the sterols when they are multiplying.  (Keep in mind the yeast multiply in the first few hours after being pitched). 

If the beer is good, I would NOT CHANGE A THING, but I do not think it is an effective substitute for good aeration.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2010, 01:19:15 PM »

However, I have a hard time getting my head around how the sterols in the small drop of floating olive oil is going to come in contact to ALL the yeast floating around, giving them a chance to adsorb the sterols when they are multiplying.  (Keep in mind the yeast multiply in the first few hours after being pitched). 

If the beer is good, I would NOT CHANGE A THING, but I do not think it is an effective substitute for good aeration.

This may give some background on the olive oil as a sterol source in place of oxygenation.

http://brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

Hope this helps.
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2010, 09:45:03 PM »
1vertical, how long do you typically "gas" the wort? I typically go anywhere from 60 sec to 80 sec. I've heard you can go into several minutes for big beers.

I go a couple minutes I suppose.  I never really timed it since I switched to med grade and bigger tanks.  I used
to go 45-60 secs with the small red tanks. Now I try to put a good thick layer of foam on top of the liquid that has
to stop a lot of the oxygen from coming out of solution and serve to "trap" the gas under the layer of foam.
How much is too much? and what is the detrimental result of too much? I think you just need to get a good
environment for the yeast,no, the best possible environment. :P
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Offline wingnut

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2010, 10:38:53 PM »

This may give some background on the olive oil as a sterol source in place of oxygenation.

http://brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

Hope this helps.


Wow!  Very interesting paper!  I will have to read it through a few more times to fullly digest it, but it is very intersting.  The only thing that bothers me is the relative increase in some esters.  Esters tend to be an intermediate step in the yeast's manufacturing process, and the elevated levels suggest that there may be a lack of something, preventing the yeast from completing the cycle and getting stuck at the ester production step.  However, since the taste panel did not detect any significant issues, the increased levels are aparently not critical.

How long have you been doing this, and have you tried re-pitching the yeast into other batches?  I am wondering if the Olive Oil is good for one generation of yeast, or if it is good for multiple generations...  Very interesting. 

Thanks for the link!
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2010, 06:07:12 AM »

How long have you been doing this, and have you tried re-pitching the yeast into other batches?  I am wondering if the Olive Oil is good for one generation of yeast, or if it is good for multiple generations...  Very interesting. 

Thanks for the link!

We tried it once, and it seemed to work.  Usually use O2 or sterile filtered air.
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Offline gimmeales

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Re: oxygenation tips
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2010, 08:50:26 AM »

How long have you been doing this, and have you tried re-pitching the yeast into other batches?  I am wondering if the Olive Oil is good for one generation of yeast, or if it is good for multiple generations...  Very interesting. 


I've done the OO thing one virtually every batch of beer using liquid yeast I've brewed in the last year or so, since I first read about the procedure...however, that's probably only 5-6 batches since I was using dry yeast quite a bit too.  I drop the OO into the starter and aerate it through intermittent shaking for 8-12 hrs before it's pitched into the wort to help spread the sterols around.  Also, these have been single-generation beers - so can't comment on subsequent re-pitching.

I've had nothing but vigorous, full-fermentations on all those batches with no detectable additional esters.  In fact the only beer that's been 'excessively estery' was according to a judge in a recent comp I entered, but it was a batch in which I used dry yeast  and the temps spiked before I knew it.

I still want to do a test, splitting a batch of wort between three fermenters and treating them as such 1.) normal  wort aeration (shaking) and standard starter 2.) no wort aeration but with OO-treated starter and 3.) no aeration of wort AND no OO in the starter.  The results of that regimen could be quite revealing.

There was a good thread recently on ProBrewer on OO.  New Belgium evidently isn't using the process as standard, but several breweries are and getting good results.