Author Topic: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?  (Read 5901 times)

Offline Chino Brews

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Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« on: October 20, 2015, 03:22:38 PM »
I've seen S. cerevisiae's post about not using Star-San solution not being effective against wild yeast and molds due to the wild yeast being resistant to the acid-anionic action of the Star-San solution and as tolerant (or more) than the desired Sacch strain, and because many molds are pretty much being indifferent to pH.

I think I would disqualify periacetic acid due to safety concerns. So what other sanitizers do you recommend that would be effective against wild yeast and molds? Iodophor?

As a brewer that likes cheap n' easy brewing, ease of use is also a consideration, which sort of eliminates bleach because rinsing with disinfected water is too futzy.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2015, 03:53:51 PM »
Iodophor works well and is no rinse at a concentration of 12.5 ppm. 
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Offline heavydeadlifts

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2015, 03:54:25 PM »
Bleach
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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2015, 03:55:25 PM »
I've seen S. cerevisiae's post about not using Star-San solution not being effective against wild yeast and molds due to the wild yeast being resistant to the acid-anionic action of the Star-San solution and as tolerant (or more) than the desired Sacch strain, and because many molds are pretty much being indifferent to pH.

I think I would disqualify periacetic acid due to safety concerns. So what other sanitizers do you recommend that would be effective against wild yeast and molds? Iodophor?

As a brewer that likes cheap n' easy brewing, ease of use is also a consideration, which sort of eliminates bleach because rinsing with disinfected water is too futzy.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24065.30

Offline dilluh98

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 04:01:19 PM »

Only time will tell if I go back to the 1.2equivalent of 1 fl. oz. of 5% bleach (scale this quantity by multiplying 1 by 5 divided by the actual percentage of sodium hypochlorite printed on the container) and 1 fl. oz of vinegar mixed into 5 gallons of water.   It's so darn cheap and convenient.

This is a fantastic sanitizer as lowering the pH of the dilute bleach solution with acetic acid shifts the equilibrium to favor hypochlorous acid (HOCl) instead of the hypochlorous anion (-OCl). Hypochlorous acid is far, far, far more effective in sanitation than hypochlorous anion.

Just don't be stupid and add bleach directly to vinegar or you will get blown away by a puff of chlorine gas. At best you'll be left with stinging eyes and a headache. At worst you could die if a large enough volume was mixed in a poorly ventilated area. In a very dilute solution as Mark describes, it is a perfectly safe sanitizing mixture. Just add the bleach to the water first, then add the vinegar.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 05:25:33 PM »
If you need the big guns, then bleach is the way to go. If this is for routine use, then iodophor works great on clean surfaces. It is inactivated rather easily by organic deposits, so you really need to be sure your cleaning is up to par.

Personally, I feel that Star-San is sufficient the majority of the time. It works just fine as a bacteriocidal agent, and it is more effective in the presence of organic residues than bleach or iodophor. Lactic acid bacteria are probably your top concern as potential contaminants in the brewery if you follow good cleaning procedures. But for persistent infections, you should reach for something a bit more broad-spectrum.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2015, 06:01:36 PM »
What I try to do is make a good solution of cleaner - PBW powder or Craftmeister tabs and give it a good soak or scrubbing.  Then I rinse well with hot tap water and sanitize with Star San (since I have a large jug of it to use up) or Iodophor at the lighter concentration.  I figure that if I do that and then use the vessel immediately, I am pretty safe from mold and wild yeast contamination.  If I store the cleaned and sanitized vessel for any length of time, then I sanitize again with Iodophor.

When I use up my present stash of Star San and Iodophor, I will be moving to the bleach and vinegar process, but that will probably be a long time down the road, given the bulk buys I made a while back!
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S. cerevisiae

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2015, 07:10:36 PM »
Personally, I feel that Star-San is sufficient the majority of the time. It works just fine as a bacteriocidal agent, and it is more effective in the presence of organic residues than bleach or iodophor.

I have seen no data that supports that assertion.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2015, 07:20:46 PM »
Personally, I feel that Star-San is sufficient the majority of the time. It works just fine as a bacteriocidal agent, and it is more effective in the presence of organic residues than bleach or iodophor.

I have seen no data that supports that assertion.
From the "Handbook of Biocide and Preservative Use" p320:

Quote
Compared to chlorine or iodine disinfectants, acid-anionic products are more stable at elevated temperatures, and their germicidal activities are less affected by organic soils.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2015, 07:50:20 PM »
Personally, I feel that Star-San is sufficient the majority of the time. It works just fine as a bacteriocidal agent, and it is more effective in the presence of organic residues than bleach or iodophor.
I have seen no data that supports that assertion.

I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.

… That said, I don't personally use it, but I have in the past and would again.
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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2015, 07:55:12 PM »

I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.

This^^^^  Once again, I really don't care what the theoretical side says, other than as a curiosity.  The bottom line is that StarSan has worked effectively for me for years.  That's the data I care about.
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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2015, 08:18:59 PM »
I think I would disqualify periacetic acid due to safety concerns. So what other sanitizers do you recommend that would be effective against wild yeast and molds? Iodophor?

I do not consider undiluted Star San to be all that safe.  Star San is 50% phosphoric acid.

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2015, 08:28:17 PM »
I have a lower standard for data. Given the ubiquity of a spray bottle of Star San in brewing and cellaring, the hundreds of thousands of clean batches of beer being brewed by craft brewers in this country are evidence enough for me.

I would love to know what a local craft brewery uses as a sanitizer because all of their beers are infected.  The fact that no one at the brewery recognizes that they have a persistent infection problem amazes me and most of the local brewers that I know.

Offline pete b

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2015, 08:32:26 PM »
My guess, and its really a hunch, is that most homebrew infections are from poor cleaning, not poor sanitation. I suspect sticky patches of dried up beer in tubing, racking canes, bottles, fermenter covers, and bottling bucket spigots are often the culprit. Its these places that don't get physically scrubbed that might be harboring critters and protecting them from a quick coating of star san.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Sanitizers Effective against Wild Yeast and Mold?
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2015, 08:39:02 PM »
I think I would disqualify periacetic acid due to safety concerns. So what other sanitizers do you recommend that would be effective against wild yeast and molds? Iodophor?

I do not consider undiluted Star San to be all that safe.  Star San is 50% phosphoric acid.

Properly diluted, peracetic acid solution (1 Tbs vinegar + 3 Tbs 3% H2O2 + 2 cups water) and the previously mentioned bleach + vinegar solution are perfectly safe (and cheap!) disinfectants. Peracetic acid solution is widely used in dairy and cheese processing plants.