Author Topic: Wyeast 1187 for an APA  (Read 2848 times)

Offline Pi

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Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« on: October 22, 2015, 06:46:41 AM »
Dechutes' Mirror Pond has probably been my most favorite beer on the planet since 1988 when i first bought a six pack on my honeymoon in Grand Teton NP. I've been trying to develop the perfect clone since I cant seem to find it here on the east coast (Just another reason why im moving to Colorado in a couple years). But I Digress.
I read somewhere that Dechutes uses 1187 Ringwood Ale strain for this, so I thought I'd would give it a try. but reading the description seems there's a conflict:
"A top cropping yeast strain with unique fermentation and flavor characteristics. Expect distinct fruit esters with a malty, complex profile. Flocculation is high, and the beer will clear well without filtration. A thorough diacetyl rest is recommended after fermentation is complete. This strain can be a slow starter and fermenter."
BJCP says esters are moderate to none- no diacetyl.
Has anyone had experience using this strain? if so, if fermenting in low to mid 60's, how do you perform a diacetyl rest?
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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2015, 07:04:51 AM »
I used Ringwood a couple times since I could get it for free from a local brewery who used it in their house ales before they switched over to S-05. Performing the rest is as easy as letting the temperature rise for a few days, I usually just turn the kegerator up to 68f. If you don't have temp control enough time on the yeast should clean up by itself (I've had luck after 2weeks).

I think the flavor of English yeast gets masked a lot when hit with a lot of American hops. Another local brewery, Tired Hands, got their yeast from "a friend in Vermont" purportedly from Hill Farmstead. It's english in origin (London Ale III is the thought) but their beers are massively dry hopped so it's tough to point out as any yeast character is overpowered by the hops. However, if you let a growler of their pale ale get a bit old the hops fade and you can clearly taste the english yeast.

Offline troybinso

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2015, 07:20:29 AM »
I have always heard that Deschutes uses WY1968/WLP002 for their core beers, but I don't know where I have heard this information or if it has any truth to it. :-\

Offline goschman

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2015, 07:39:28 AM »
Mirror Pond and Deschutes in general is one of my favorites as well. I was having one just the other day and was wondering what 'English Ale' yeast they use.

Can you brew it which deemed it cloned shows the yeast as WLP002 from what I can tell
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 07:45:03 AM by goschman »
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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2015, 07:55:28 AM »
Deschutes has been around longer than these cultures have been available to craft brewers.  While I may be wrong, I do not recall hearing that Deschutes was a Peter Austin installation, which means that 1187 is either not Ringwood (which many of us have suspected for a long time), or Deschutes does not use a Ringwood-derived culture.

Offline Pi

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2015, 08:00:30 AM »
Can you brew it which deemed it cloned shows the yeast as WLP002 from what I can tell
Heard the same. Got some going now using Briess and WLP002. Flocced out nicely. little dark (crystal80).
Just received a sack of Great Western NW Pale. gonna try that with the WLP002 and dial Back to Crystal60. see where that gets me.
Ohio is the closest i can find MP. Might have to make a trip to pick up a case of control group.
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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2015, 08:04:58 AM »
I think the flavor of English yeast gets masked a lot when hit with a lot of American hops.

One can hit true Ringwood with a lot of hops (e.g., DFH 90 Minute IPA), and it still retains its British character.  It is a flavor positive yeast strain.    The only breweries that are using true Ringwood are the breweries that were built by Peter Austin and Partners or breweries that hired someone who was a brewer at one of the Peter Austin and Partners built breweries (e.g., Jason Kennedy, DFH's original brew master, was a brewer at Wild Goose, which was built by Peter Austin and Partners).  The Wyeast and White Labs cultures are partial cultures that are the result of yeast ranching home brewers plating for singles.  Ringwood is a multi-strain culture.  From what I can ascertain, the only person alive who knows how to assemble it from isolates now that Peter Austin has left us is Alan Pugsley.  There is zero doubt in my mind that the isolates are held in the NCYC.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2015, 08:09:05 AM »
Can you brew it did Mirror Pond a long time ago. I don't remember much but I think they used American PALE ALE malt for the base vs regular 2-row.

Offline Pi

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2015, 08:12:29 AM »
Deschutes has been around longer than these cultures have been available to craft brewers.  While I may be wrong, I do not recall hearing that Deschutes was a Peter Austin installation, which means that 1187 is either not Ringwood (which many of us have suspected for a long time), or Deschutes does not use a Ringwood-derived culture.
From Wikipedia FWIW:
"Deschutes uses an in-house, proprietary yeast strain resembling Wyeast Laboratories, Inc. #1187 Ringwood Ale yeast."
I think the word resembling is what threw me. What would you recommend that would be close to "an in-house, proprietary yeast strain resembling Wyeast Laboratories, Inc. #1187 Ringwood Ale yeast."?
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Offline denny

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 08:13:55 AM »
Deschutes has been around longer than these cultures have been available to craft brewers.  While I may be wrong, I do not recall hearing that Deschutes was a Peter Austin installation, which means that 1187 is either not Ringwood (which many of us have suspected for a long time), or Deschutes does not use a Ringwood-derived culture.

I'm pretty certain Deschutes does not use Ringwood.  And the first time I used Ringwood (1998 or 99), Wyeast was calling it "Swedish Porter yeast".
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Offline Pi

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2015, 08:23:22 AM »
That's Wikipedia for ya. I did hear a long time ago. something about Mark's post Wild Goose/ Jason Kennedy. Must have been when they were located in Cambridge MD. IMO, their beers went downhill after the moved to Frederick MD, but I always thought it was because of different water Chemistry.
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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2015, 08:55:17 AM »
Frederick attempted to produce Wild Goose's beers in a different type of brew house.  From what I understand,  Frederick used their house yeast strain for the Wild Goose beers.  The result was a much blander tasting beer.  What's wild is that the Wild Goose Brewery was built in an old oyster cannery.  Anyone who was not familiar with the smell of boiling wort would not be able to tell that the building housed a brewery. The building was not much to look at, but the brewery inside the building was cool.  I seem to recall that the Wild Goose brew house was sold to an outfit on Long Island.  Where it is today is anyone's guess.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 09:09:40 AM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline erockrph

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 08:56:52 AM »
Deschutes has been around longer than these cultures have been available to craft brewers.  While I may be wrong, I do not recall hearing that Deschutes was a Peter Austin installation, which means that 1187 is either not Ringwood (which many of us have suspected for a long time), or Deschutes does not use a Ringwood-derived culture.

I'm pretty certain Deschutes does not use Ringwood.  And the first time I used Ringwood (1998 or 99), Wyeast was calling it "Swedish Porter yeast".
Interesting. Carnegie Porter, perhaps? I've heard that some Baltic Porters were brewed as ales rather than lagers, but I don't think I had heard a definite example.
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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2015, 09:09:06 AM »
I'm pretty certain Deschutes does not use Ringwood.  And the first time I used Ringwood (1998 or 99), Wyeast was calling it "Swedish Porter yeast".

I recall 1187 being called Swedish Porter as well.  I thought that it was from the Pripps brewery making it essentially a Baltic Porter strain.

By the way, I do not know how much pull you have with Wyeast, but I would appreciate your putting a plug in for me.  I have been waiting for them to re-release Wyeast 2272, so that I do not have to purchase it from Siebel.   I do not believe that Wyeast has released 2272 since 2011.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2015, 09:15:50 AM »
I've heard people have some success emailing Michael Dawson. I get White Labs and Wyeast need to balance supply with demand, but it would be sweet if they would sell some unique strains on a futures basis.