Author Topic: Wyeast 1187 for an APA  (Read 4563 times)

Offline chumley

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2015, 04:37:31 PM »
Actually, Wyeast discontinued WY1742 Swedish Porter yeast, which they got from Carnegie Porter, when they discovered that it was the same as their WY1187 Ringwood yeast.  They were selling the same yeast under different numbers at the same time.

I believe that  Sinebrychoff is another baltic porter made with this yeast.  I think brewing baltic porters wih lager yeast is more of a Polish-Russian thing.

And I do not think Deschutes uses Ringwood, either.  I think they use Fuller's yeast, which I find better suited for IPAs than Ringwood.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2015, 05:41:23 PM »
Real Ringwood is a fine IPA yeast.  Wyeast 1187 is not real Ringwood.   I am personally not a fan of Wyeast 1968/WLP002.  In my humble opinion, it is the poser of British yeast strains.  It is the British yeast strain for those who do not like British beer.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2015, 06:03:44 PM »
I've heard people have some success emailing Michael Dawson. I get White Labs and Wyeast need to balance supply with demand, but it would be sweet if they would sell some unique strains on a futures basis.
I email him every year or so hounding him over when WY3864 is going to be released next. While I can't say that it has made a huge difference, he has mentioned in his replies that the feedback they get is part of what factors into their decisions on which strains to release. It certainly can't hurt to reach out to them.
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Offline neddles

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2015, 06:05:38 PM »
I've heard people have some success emailing Michael Dawson. I get White Labs and Wyeast need to balance supply with demand, but it would be sweet if they would sell some unique strains on a futures basis.
I email him every year or so hounding him over when WY3864 is going to be released next. While I can't say that it has made a huge difference, he has mentioned in his replies that the feedback they get is part of what factors into their decisions on which strains to release. It certainly can't hurt to reach out to them.
Great, maybe I'll ask him when we'll see 1026 again. It's been over two years!

Offline erockrph

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2015, 06:16:06 PM »
Actually, Wyeast discontinued WY1742 Swedish Porter yeast, which they got from Carnegie Porter, when they discovered that it was the same as their WY1187 Ringwood yeast.  They were selling the same yeast under different numbers at the same time.

I believe that  Sinebrychoff is another baltic porter made with this yeast.  I think brewing baltic porters wih lager yeast is more of a Polish-Russian thing.
Interesting. I just picked up some Sinebrychoff recently. I will have to give it a taste-test with that in mind. Maybe I can convince my palate that there is some diacetyl hidden in there armed with this info  ;)
Eric B.

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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2015, 06:32:21 PM »
Real Ringwood is a fine IPA yeast.  Wyeast 1187 is not real Ringwood.   I am personally not a fan of Wyeast 1968/WLP002.  In my humble opinion, it is the poser of British yeast strains.  It is the British yeast strain for those who do not like British beer.

Extrapolate, please.  Too bland?  Other than real Ringwood (which we can't get) what would you use?

I'll be tempted to do a split batch and compare.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline chumley

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2015, 07:19:44 PM »
Real Ringwood is a fine IPA yeast.  Wyeast 1187 is not real Ringwood.   I am personally not a fan of Wyeast 1968/WLP002.  In my humble opinion, it is the poser of British yeast strains.  It is the British yeast strain for those who do not like British beer.

Does that mean that Fuller's ESB, London Porter, and Chiswick Bitter are British beers for those who do not like British beer?   :)

Online hopfenundmalz

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2015, 07:21:30 PM »
Deschutes has been around longer than these cultures have been available to craft brewers.  While I may be wrong, I do not recall hearing that Deschutes was a Peter Austin installation, which means that 1187 is either not Ringwood (which many of us have suspected for a long time), or Deschutes does not use a Ringwood-derived culture.

The production brewery has a 150 bbl Huppmann brew house and conical fermenters, so not Peter Austin. I can't say what the brewpub in Bend has.
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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2015, 07:31:20 PM »
Extrapolate, please.  Too bland?  Other than real Ringwood (which we can't get) what would you use?

I'll be tempted to do a split batch and compare.

Fullers is considered to be a gold standard for English beer by Americans because most have never experienced a fresh English bitter on cask (which is also why we have Americans brewing English-style ales that contain large amounts of caramel malt).  Due to the UK's gravity limiting tax laws, English bitter relies on yeast cultures that have a lot of character.  Many of the more flavor positive English strains have either not made it to our shores or have been purged from the Wyeast and White Labs lineups in favor of more neutral strains due to American taste preferences.  Wyeast 1968/WLP002 is fairly neutral when it comes to British yeast strains.  Alan Pugsley put it best when he stated that Americans consider Ringwood to be a strong flavor producer when it is actually fairly neutral compared to many British strains.

With that said, if you want to use a beautiful strain with a lot of British character that is acceptable to the American palate, push Wyeast to release 1768 English Special Bitter or White Labs to release WLP033 Klassic Ale.  Those offerings are the Young's Ram Brewery culture. It has a unique, but pleasant ester profile that screams, "I am British."   If either of these cultures does get released, for heaven's sake, do not strangle the fermentation by starting it at 15C or 16C (59 to 61F), let it breath. 


By the way, like Wyeast 1450 (BrewTek CL-50), we can thank Maribeth Raines for Wyeast 1968/White Labs WLP002 and Wyeast 1768/White Labs WLP033.  These cultures were first introduced to the home brewing community as BrewTek CL-160 (Fullers) and BrewTek CL-170 (Youngs).

BrewTek CL-160 British Draft Ale
    One of our (Brewtek's) favorite Ale yeasts, gives a full bodied, well rounded flavor with a touch of diacetyl. This yeast has a way of emphasizing malt character like no other yeast we've used. Highly recommended for Porters and Bitters.

BrewTek CL-170 Classic British Ale
    Like CL-160, produces a beautiful draft bitter or Porter. This yeast leaves a complex ale with very British tones and fruit like esters, it also produces a classic Scottish Heavy and plays well in high gravity worts.

For those who question the White Labs WLP033 Klassic Ale link, look at White Labs' description for this strain:

"WLP033 Klassic Ale Yeast

Traditional English style, single strain yeast. Produces signature ester character, and does not mask hop character. Leaves ale with a slightly sweet malt character. Best for bitters, milds, porters, and stouts. Also good for Scottish style ales."


BrewTek CL-170 was my house ale strain for five years.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 07:43:29 PM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2015, 07:41:30 PM »
Can you culture Young's from a bottle?
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline stpug

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2015, 07:43:37 PM »
Isn't WLP033 a permanent offering from White Labs? Looks like it is.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2015, 07:50:09 PM »
Young's Special London Ale is bottle conditioned, but I have never encountered it in the United States.   The old Ram Brewery is now a museum, or at least part of it is a museum.  Production was moved to Charles Wells in 2007, so I do not know if they are still using the Ram culture or if they are using the Wells culture (which is available as WLP006 Bedford British).

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2015, 07:53:31 PM »
Isn't WLP033 a permanent offering from White Labs? Looks like it is.

No, it is not.  The strain does not appear on the poster that they supply to home brew supply stores.  I contacted White Labs a couple of months ago to ask if they were planning to offer as a seasonal, but they had no plans to do so in the immediate future.  I am beginning to wonder what kind of volume we would need to have Wyeast or White Labs perform a one-off propagation?  They have to have different size propagators.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 08:00:36 PM by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2015, 07:55:47 PM »
I'd sign on for an order.

So, short of a yeast we cannot currently get, what would you recommend for "real" British character?
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

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Re: Wyeast 1187 for an APA
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2015, 08:20:49 PM »
Most of the British seasonals that White Labs offers should have more British character than WLP002, which is probably why they are seasonals.  Have you ever tried Wyeast 1318?