Author Topic: First wort hopping and whirlpool  (Read 1381 times)

Offline TexasHumuluslupulushead

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Austin Zealot
    • View Profile
First wort hopping and whirlpool
« on: October 26, 2015, 02:56:27 PM »
First off- Big shout out to Hoosierbrew and Evil_Morty. Taking your advice landed me the beat IPA i have brewed in 12 years of homebrewing. Just brewed again yesterday and did and will always brew my IPAs like this now. So juicy, bright and refreshing.  Top notch gents, thanks again!


Recipe recap-
5gallon
13# 2row
10oz C20
10oz Carapils

RO water additions
7g gypsum
4g Calcium Chloride
2.5g epsom
3ml lactic acid

Mash pH was 5.15

Firstwort hops- .75oz Warrior

NO BOIL ADDITIONS

Whirlpool additions (45 min @175)
2oz each citra, mosaic, galaxy

Dry hop x8 days
1oz each- citra, mosaic, summer, galaxy



I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.    -- Dean Martin

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 03:02:06 PM »
Awesome !  Glad it came out nice for ya.
Jon H.

Offline Brutal Eric

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 04:06:45 PM »
So is the temp important or just post boil?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2015, 04:13:59 PM »
So is the temp important or just post boil?

Temp is important. You can add the hops post boil and steep, but you'll extract a lot more bitterness which you'd need to account for.  If you cool first to around 170-175F and then steep the hops you'll extract little to no perceptible bitterness. I like the flavor and aroma better this way and also being able to control the bitterness in the kettle.
Jon H.

Offline Brutal Eric

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2015, 06:32:00 PM »
So I just made an IPA Saturday. I only added 9 grams of magnum for 60, added 2.75 ounces of hops at 5 minutes then 2.75 ounces at flame out, rest for 75 minutes. All the bitterness was at the end then so... I will try the 175* on my next batch. Looking for a more hop flavored beer with little bitterness. Thanks

Offline TexasHumuluslupulushead

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Austin Zealot
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 04:25:35 AM »
So is the temp important or just post boil?

Was not a believer till i tasted this batch. I totally agree with Hoosierbrew- i cooled after boil to 185 stopped cooling and wiated till i broke 180. I potched all my hops and kept temp between 172-175. Juiciest most flavorful IPA ive ever brewered. I kegged it last week and have just over a gallon left. I cant leave it alone...
I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.    -- Dean Martin

Offline gymrat

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
  • Ralph's Brewery
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2015, 10:47:22 AM »
So I just made an IPA Saturday. I only added 9 grams of magnum for 60, added 2.75 ounces of hops at 5 minutes then 2.75 ounces at flame out, rest for 75 minutes. All the bitterness was at the end then so... I will try the 175* on my next batch. Looking for a more hop flavored beer with little bitterness. Thanks

I avoid bitterness by not adding any bittering charges. I don't add any hops at all until the last 15 minutes of the boil. I usually add 2oz at 15, 2oz at 10, 2oz at 3, 2oz when wort reaches 170F, last time I also added 2 oz dry hop and that worked out nicely.
Ralph's Brewery
Topeka, KS

Offline jtoots

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2015, 12:54:11 PM »
Wow, that's a longer whirlpool than I usually do, I'll have to give it a shot. 

Question...  the devil's in the details... Most of what I've read (as I recall) has stated that getting just below 170 degrees will shut down AA isomerization and you won't get any bitterness.  Anyone have thoughts/preferences on 175 degrees vs. 165 degrees?

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8469
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 03:16:56 PM »
I dont think its a flip-switch situation. 170F boink, no AA... 171F boink, lots of AA. When I say that I chill to 170 I actually chill to 180 then shut the water off and it slids down to 175-170 before stabilized. I drop in the hops and set timer. If the temp hits 160 I hit the flame. With this method I get super flavor and aroma with no extra bitterness that I can notice. Would a lab prove me wrong? Dunno, I doubt it

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2015, 03:36:18 PM »
And there are IBUs that calculate at 175F.  I don't dispute it, I just can't taste the extra bitterness from them at that temp.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6193
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2015, 03:51:42 PM »
I dont think its a flip-switch situation. 170F boink, no AA... 171F boink, lots of AA. When I say that I chill to 170 I actually chill to 180 then shut the water off and it slids down to 175-170 before stabilized. I drop in the hops and set timer. If the temp hits 160 I hit the flame. With this method I get super flavor and aroma with no extra bitterness that I can notice. Would a lab prove me wrong? Dunno, I doubt it
I'm sure you'll get some additional measured IBU's, but the question is whether it is detectable by your palate rather than just at the lab. Maybe if you use a metric crap-ton of hops in a low IBU beer you might get enough to notice, but most real-world scenarios are likely to fall below the typical detection limit.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline jtoots

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2015, 05:02:04 PM »
I dont think its a flip-switch situation. 170F boink, no AA... 171F boink, lots of AA. When I say that I chill to 170 I actually chill to 180 then shut the water off and it slids down to 175-170 before stabilized. I drop in the hops and set timer. If the temp hits 160 I hit the flame. With this method I get super flavor and aroma with no extra bitterness that I can notice. Would a lab prove me wrong? Dunno, I doubt it

Great response.  My approach is similar, with the water being shut off a touch later and I'm usually stable just a touch lower.  In any case, over or under, whirlpool hopping is definitely a great process.

Offline norcaljp

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • I prefer to drink my bread, thank you
    • View Profile
    • The Brewins
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2015, 04:47:06 AM »
I'll give this a try myself in my next hoppy batch. Curious, if you feel you get more hop flavor by lowering the temp before adding your whirlpool/steeping hops, or is it just a method to limit bitterness without losing flavor?

If, for example, I'm brewing a DIPA that is clocking in around 100 IBU, then I'm not too worried about the  bitterness. If it also adds flavor, then.........
Joel Prater

I prefer to drink my bread, thank you

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2015, 11:48:54 AM »
Curious, if you feel you get more hop flavor by lowering the temp before adding your whirlpool/steeping hops, or is it just a method to limit bitterness without losing flavor?


I like the flavor and aroma a bit better at the cool temp as well as being able to control bitterness. Hotter temps want to drive off more of the volatile aroma and flavor compounds - I'm sold on it. Try it and post what you think !
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6193
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: First wort hopping and whirlpool
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2015, 01:27:32 PM »
I'll give this a try myself in my next hoppy batch. Curious, if you feel you get more hop flavor by lowering the temp before adding your whirlpool/steeping hops, or is it just a method to limit bitterness without losing flavor?

If, for example, I'm brewing a DIPA that is clocking in around 100 IBU, then I'm not too worried about the  bitterness. If it also adds flavor, then.........
I drop the temp solely to limit IBU's. For my massively hopped IPA's where I don't need to cap the bitterness at a certain level, then my only hop addition is at flameout after all boiling has stopped. I put in all my hops and whirlpool for 90 minutes. The hop flavor you get from this is immense. I certainly don't feel like I'm losing any hop character versus a 170F whirlpool, but I'm also using over 4oz/gallon of hops in this recipe so I don't know if you'd even notice a minor difference.

One thing I've noticed about an all-whirlpool hopped beer is that the bittering seems a lot smoother than you'd expect. I had my IPA measured and it was 98 IBU, but it tasted closer to a smooth 60 IBUs to my palate.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer