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Author Topic: Playing around with final beer pH  (Read 11345 times)

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2015, 04:40:56 pm »
I have a stout on tap now, and I may try adjusting down with a little acid in the glass. I've adjusted upward with baking soda before with very noticeable results for the better. I'm betting this will be pretty noticeable, too.

Guinness is 4.3PH. roast is smooth-likely as they manage the mash ph with pale malts and roast separately. finished is acidic beer but nonetheless smooth.

I agree on Guinness. Just trying to get my head around somebody (if they do it) lowering kettle pH on a dark beer. Seems counterintuitive to what has made my dark beers better. I think Guinness steeps their roast malt separately from the pale mash, giving them a lower pH than many dark beers. Who knows, maybe lowering pH after the fact doesn't have the same effect as mashing dark beer too low. I think I'm most interested in lowering kettle pH on pale lagers, which we all want crisp and drinkable. New territory for me.

right that's where i'm leaning. i think a mash likely determines the acrid properties for dark roast-higher PH smooths it out. finished beer with lowered PH doesn't necessarily make roast more harsh.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2015, 04:55:13 pm »
I would think that's true. If my intel gathering is correct, lowering preboil is supposed to effect protein coagulation (clarity), round out hop bitterness,  and assist the yeast in getting the ph down to where they need it. So if you dont have a clarity issue, your hop bitterness is fine as-is, and you are using a more robust yeast (like 1056?) then I'm guessing preboil acid isn't really doing much for you.

Kai says ph has a part to play in isomerization, utilization and the quality of perceived bitterness. I dont know if that's been explored. In a more robust beer I wouldn't worry about it. I just tried it in a Helles-ish beer.

Kai says the reason yeast release hydrogen ions and drops ph is so they can easily uptake nutrients and expell co2 and alc. I imagine helping them get a leg up on that may be more important with some finicky lager yeasts.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2015, 05:49:15 pm »
I'm not sure that a good conclusion can be developed with Guinness as the example. I think part of the reason that beer is smooth and flavorful is the high raw barley content which melds the grainy barley flavor and glucans with the roast barley flavor. It is a strange beast, but one that works well.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2015, 03:16:04 am »
I would think that's true. If my intel gathering is correct, lowering preboil is supposed to effect protein coagulation (clarity), round out hop bitterness,  and assist the yeast in getting the ph down to where they need it. So if you dont have a clarity issue, your hop bitterness is fine as-is, and you are using a more robust yeast (like 1056?) then I'm guessing preboil acid isn't really doing much for you.

Kai says ph has a part to play in isomerization, utilization and the quality of perceived bitterness. I dont know if that's been explored. In a more robust beer I wouldn't worry about it. I just tried it in a Helles-ish beer.

Kai says the reason yeast release hydrogen ions and drops ph is so they can easily uptake nutrients and expell co2 and alc. I imagine helping them get a leg up on that may be more important with some finicky lager yeasts.
Not all yeast drop the pH the same from what I understand. British ale yeast will drop the most, lager yeast not so much. Founder's uses Wyeast 1056.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2015, 04:02:31 am »
I have no doubt they are all slightly different, maybe even differences with same yeast but different temps or wort composition.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2015, 07:03:15 am »
Must... collect... more... data.  ;D

This is great, my day job and hobby are finally colliding into something we all may be able to use. Maybe. If the data supports it.

Side bar: I think I'm going to screw with some people tonight at the homebrew club meeting. Dose one of my on tap beers to a different final pH and see what people perceive... muahahaha.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2015, 07:12:13 am »
Must... collect... more... data.  ;D

This is great, my day job and hobby are finally colliding into something we all may be able to use. Maybe. If the data supports it.

Side bar: I think I'm going to screw with some people tonight at the homebrew club meeting. Dose one of my on tap beers to a different final pH and see what people perceive... muahahaha.
I think we need a list of ph of each of the bjcp commercial examples, just to start with lol.

Report back on the club meeting. Maybe blind triangle if you can pull it off.

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2015, 12:33:35 pm »
Isn't Guinness lower than 4.2, closer to 3.8 or 3.9 last checked?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2015, 03:23:05 pm »

Isn't Guinness lower than 4.2, closer to 3.8 or 3.9 last checked?

Yes 3.88 on my test reading.....I erroneously put 4.2 above....good catch.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

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Dort
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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2015, 03:36:46 pm »

Isn't Guinness lower than 4.2, closer to 3.8 or 3.9 last checked?

Yes 3.88 on my test reading.....I erroneously put 4.2 above....good catch.


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Really unique aspect about it. Agree with Martin - maybe the massive amount of flaked barley and nitro smoothness offset any harshness in it.

Offline mabrungard

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2015, 05:09:06 pm »
flaked barley and nitro smoothness offset any harshness in it.

I forgot about the nitro. That would also reduce perceptions of acidity since the carbonic bite is significantly reduced by the nitro content. Good catch.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Playing around with final beer pH
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2015, 01:52:00 pm »
 just mashed a wit and went with 5.45PH. adjusted in kettle to 5.25. typically i would mash this in at around 5.2-5.25...we will see if i notice anything with higher mash PH. with wlp400, i expect this to end up around 3.8ish for finished beer.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest