Author Topic: Shaking  (Read 2788 times)

Offline Philbrew

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2015, 03:42:15 AM »
I've tried all the mentioned methods.  I did use a venturi tube fitting.  I liked it, but sucking in air made me nervous.  I've gone back to the wand.  I like it best.  I do about 90 seconds.  Not sure if that is correct, or the right amount, but it works for me.  I did try the mix stir style once.  I took an ipa bath!  Shaking was never for me.  Carboy and shaking again made me nervous.  I've been boiling my stone before use.  I may have to put it in the oven.
Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2015, 01:19:51 PM »
Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?

That's not a good idea unless one likes to use multi-strain cultures. :)

Offline Footballandhops

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2015, 01:29:15 PM »

Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?

That's not a good idea unless one likes to use multi-strain cultures. :)

A bit of a side topic, but whatever happened to the talk about how a very small dab of olive oil was just as good as pure o2 prefermentation?

I figured you would know if anyone would...
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2015, 04:25:50 PM »
Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?

That's not a good idea unless one likes to use multi-strain cultures. :)
Is there some room temp solution that one could run through a SS stone that would kill most of the yeast and bacteria?
Many of us would be on a strict liquid diet if it weren't for pretzels.

Offline denny

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2015, 04:35:01 PM »

Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?

That's not a good idea unless one likes to use multi-strain cultures. :)

A bit of a side topic, but whatever happened to the talk about how a very small dab of olive oil was just as good as pure o2 prefermentation?

I figured you would know if anyone would...

It's been shown to not be effective.  when Drew and I were writing "Experimental Homebrewing" I interviewed Grady Hull about it.  he's the guy who wrote the paper that set the homebrew world into a tizzy.  He said he had no idea where homebrewers got the idea that olive oil was an effective sub for O2.  He had studied in relation to yeast storage, not fermentation, and eventually found it wasn't effective even for storage.  Homebrewers jumped to the conclusion that it could be used in place of O2.  The single good homebrew test I've seen found that tasters preferred beers made the "old" way, without olive oil.  The best that any homebrewer has ever said was that it "didn't hurt".....damning with faint praise.
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Offline narcout

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2015, 07:58:41 PM »
I've been boiling my stone before use.

I've been doing that for years without issue.  After I boil it, I also spray Iodophor solution all over and through the wand/stone itself.

A bit of a side topic, but whatever happened to the talk about how a very small dab of olive oil was just as good as pure o2 prefermentation?

Here's the paper if you want to read it: http://www.brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

Offline erockrph

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2015, 02:02:17 AM »
Couldn't you just run some Idofor or Star-San (sorry Mark :)) solution through the stone when you're done and again before use?

That's not a good idea unless one likes to use multi-strain cultures. :)
Is there some room temp solution that one could run through a SS stone that would kill most of the yeast and bacteria?
Ethanol, ideally in the 70% range, but anything above 50% will likely be sufficient. I've started using 151 proof rum in a spray bottle for a spray sanitizer. Everclear and overproof vodka (100 proof or higher) are probably as good of a choice, if not better. (Bacardi 151 has a stronger rum flavor/aroma than I recall from my college years, so I reserve it for things that won't carry over flavor like starter vessels, yeast packets, etc.)
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Re: Shaking
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2015, 03:24:35 AM »
I used 190 proof (95%) Everclear for years as my sanitizer for culturing.  I would still use 190 proof Everclear if I could purchase it.  That stuff burns cleanly.  I may give the 151 proof (75.5%) stuff a shot.

Offline denny

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Re: Shaking
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2015, 05:08:30 PM »
A bit of a side topic, but whatever happened to the talk about how a very small dab of olive oil was just as good as pure o2 prefermentation?

Here's the paper if you want to read it: http://www.brewcrazy.com/hull-olive-oil-thesis.pdf

Here's the excerpt form Experimental Homebrewing after I'd talked to Grady Hull about using OO.....

Olive Oil Instead of Aeration
Yeast cells need oxygen to synthesize sterols to keep cell walls flexible for reproductive budding. Homebrewers are constantly looking to generate the best yeast health for the least amount of fuss and expense and some saw the Holy Grail in olive oil.

In September 2005, Grady Hull came up with a completely new method when he published his Master’s thesis. He used a small dose of olive oil during yeast storage to remove the need to oxygenate the wort prior to pitching. Here’s a bit of the introduction of the paper:

“This paper reports the findings of a series of full-scale production tests that were conducted in an operating brewery to evaluate the effects of another type of yeast treatment. By mixing olive oil into the yeast, during storage, instead of aerating the wort, fermentations can be achieved with only a minor increase in fermentation time. The beers produced from these fermentations were comparable in flavor and foam retention to beers produced by traditional wort aeration. The ester profile of the beers produced using olive oil addition was significantly higher than the controls and the flavor stability of these beers was significantly improved .”

Homebrewers seized on adding olive oil as a way to get around other aeration methods. A liter of cheap olive oil is many times less expensive and lasts longer than the available cans of O2. What most overlook: the technique was used on yeast in storage. It had nothing to do with adding olive oil to the fermenter. Yet folks were adding it to the fermenter and reporting “Well, it didn’t hurt,” or “it seemed to work.” (Remember, there are plenty of homebrewers out there who do no aeration whatsoever and report that their beers are fantastic.)

There was little accounting for the infinitesimally small amount of olive oil needed for a five-gallon batch of homebrew. Reducing Grady’s numbers to our brew lengths brings the dose to less than 0.05 ml of oil per 5-gallon batch.  The closest we can get without using lab equipment is to use a drop on the end of a pin or needle. Brewers attempting to use this technique usually also missed out on dissolving the oil in a solution of ethanol first to ensure that it would blend into the wort and not float in the watery wort. We specifically asked Grady about how homebrewers were taking his research and using it in their own ways. Grady replied:
 
“We never tried using olive oil in propagations. Our tests were centered around using it as a nutrient in yeast storage vessels to eliminate the need for aeration at knockout. Also, we never tried adding the oil  to  the wort after pitching. The oil was always added to the yeast in the storage vessel and given plenty of time to mix and be absorbed into the cells prior to pitching. We found a slight increase in esters and a slight improvement in shelf life by using olive oil and not aerating. We do not currently use olive oil in our yeast storage vessels. The results did not bear out the shelf life improvements we were hoping for and did not justify installing an olive oil dosing and handling system.”
 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 05:11:05 PM by denny »
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