[tommymorris]

I have brewed JZ's Munich Madness 2 years in a row for October. Both times I found it way more rich than I prefer.

My favorite Marzen is Ayinger Fest Bier. To me, it seems more like a German Pilsner with a dose of medium caramel malt. With that in mind, I have taken a guess which much move me closer to what I like. Any thoughts?

72% Pilsner Malt
16% Vienna Malt
12% Caramunich
19 IBU Tradition @ 60 min
2.5 IBU Tradition @ 5 min
WYeast 2633 Oktoberfest Blend

OG: 1058 FG: 1013
IBU: 21.8
SRM: 8.5
Mash: single infusion 152F

Thanks for you help!

[majorvices]

I wouldn't put any crystal or caramel malts in a marzen. Ever.

[69franx]

I made it last year as well and it was too sweet. Thus year I brewed 2 batches, 1 with a little less caramunich than his recipe calls for and 1 with zero caramunich.  I also dropped mash temp to 150. They both finished too low and overly dry, but the flavor was great, especially the all base version. I basically dropped the caramunich from his recipe and kept the percentages the same for the pilsner, vienna,  and Weyermann Munich II then bumped the gravity back up to where I wanted it. Good luck however you go with it, but like Keith said 12% Caramunich is not the answer for what I wanted

[majorvices]

Yes, 12% caramunich is way too high unless you are adding something like maize, rice or sugar to lighten the body.

For a marzen consider going 100% vienna, or a blend of Vienna, Munich and pils. Add a touch of carafa special if you want it darker. The key to making under 6% German lagers is "crispness" in the finish. Your not going to experience that with high levels of crystal/caramel malts. If you add any, keep them under 5%.

[tommymorris]

Thanks guys I will go back to the drawing board. I had used Caramunich because I see it in a lot of online Marzen recipes (in smaller percentages, Munich Madness is at 7.7%) I think I am going to try 100% Vienna or close and see where that gets me.

[majorvices]

If you are expecting a reddish/amber color on your Marzen you won't get it with 100% Vienna. That said, American's ideas of Marzen is usually darker than those in Germany.

[tommymorris]

Thanks. I have put 2 recipes in Beersmith after reading yours and 69franx posts. Both come up 6-7 SRM. That is below style, but, I think I am going to not bother on color. 6-7 is a nice gold color which should be fine.

I am think I will try both approaches; Munich Madness sans Caramunich and all Vienna. Both should be good.

PS. I am thinking of boiling longer to get a color bump that way.

[HoosierBrew]

FWIW, the O-fest Ken sent me for the swap had little crystal (my preference) and had a nice reddish color. Really nice beer. This was the recipe he posted :

"that was wlp833... 46% Vienna, 33% avangard munich light, 8.5% avangard munich dark, 8.5% weyermann carahell,4% weyermann carared. 26IBU 5.9%ABV."

I liked it enough that I'll brew it sometime.

[majorvices]

Thanks. I have put 2 recipes in Beersmith after reading yours and 69franx posts. Both come up 6-7 SRM. That is below style, but, I think I am going to not bother on color. 6-7 is a nice gold color which should be fine.

I am think I will try both approaches; Munich Madness sans Caramunich and all Vienna. Both should be good.

PS. I am thinking of boiling longer to get a color bump that way.

Blue Pants Oktoberfest is a very good example of a "True To Style" Marzen. You will notice it is not very reddish. I think the SRM on the style guideline is wrong in this case.

[tommymorris]

Blue Pants Oktoberfest is a very good example of a "True To Style" Marzen. You will notice it is not very reddish. I think the SRM on the style guideline is wrong in this case.

I did enjoy a six pack of the BP Oktoberfest a month or two ago. I remember it was good.

[denny]

I wouldn't put any crystal or caramel malts in a marzen. Ever.

THIS^^^^^^

FWIW, I've found every lager recipe from that book to turn out too sweet.

[tommymorris]

Thanks for the inputs.

[brewinhard]

A small % of dark munich malt (15L or so) is also a nice addition to a good ofest/marzen to bump up the malty background. 

[erockrph]

A small % of dark munich malt (15L or so) is also a nice addition to a good ofest/marzen to bump up the malty background.

Aromatic malt works well in this regard also. My Maerzen is essentially the BCS recipe with the CaraMunich replaced by half as much Aromatic.

[RPIScotty]

A small % of dark munich malt (15L or so) is also a nice addition to a good ofest/marzen to bump up the malty background.

Aromatic malt works well in this regard also. My Maerzen is essentially the BCS recipe with the CaraMunich replaced by half as much Aromatic.

Sounds a bit like Saranac's Dark-toberfest. I have always been of fan of that beer. They use Munich, Dark Munich, CaraMunich and Pilsner.