Author Topic: lambic simple recipe  (Read 1119 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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lambic simple recipe
« on: November 06, 2015, 11:57:33 PM »
Any suggestions for a really simple lambic for dummies recipe? No turbid mash, no gelatinization, no 5 hour boil. I was thinking 2/3 pils malt and 1/3 wheat flakes; regular 1 hour mash at 67C. Would a 1 hour boil suffice? Any tricks to get some dextrines/starch into the wort?
Frank P.

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Offline dannyjed

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2015, 02:24:12 AM »
It could depend on what yeast and or bacteria you're using. I mash high for mine around 70 C (158-160F) and use lacto,sac, brett, and pedio. I also use wheat malt and not flaked.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2015, 02:51:32 AM »
I'm still working on the same thing. My initial thought was to steep some torrified wheat in the sparge water to extract the starch with minimal conversion. But my efficiency was ridiculously low and the FG was way too high even after 2 years.

Next time I will reserve the torrified or flaked wheat and add it at the last 10 minutes of the mash. Hopefully that will convert some of the starch to dextrins, but still leave a lot of big chains in the wort.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2015, 08:33:57 AM »
This is for a real lambic. No malted wheat and spontaneous fermentation.
Frank P.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2015, 01:20:37 PM »
Haven't done one yet but if I did it would be about 1.040 and 50/50 wheat dme and light dme. I'd do a 30 min boil and hop with about a half ounce of something low AA. Just enough for it to qualify as beer. I would cool ship it down to pitching temp overnight probably,  which would also qualify it as spontaneous. Then I would pitch a blend of my choice,  maybe roselare or whatever. Maybe some dregs from a bottle or two of something good. Id let it ride in the fermentor for as long as I could stand it, and maybe toss in a spiral a month or so before bottling.

Offline dannyjed

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2015, 02:35:01 PM »
This is for a real lambic. No malted wheat and spontaneous fermentation.
I read it as "simple". For a "real lambic" you should probably use a turbid mash also.
Dan Chisholm

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2015, 04:57:14 PM »
You haven't lived until you have suffered through a turbid mash.  8)

I don't think there is a perfect way to replicate the effects of the turbid mash. It's not just getting starch into the boil. It's a multi-step mash and you have the effects of hitting those sugars and starches with a near boil for a long period of time. Having brewed lambic both with and without the turbid mash there is definitely less complexity without the turbid mash.

One way to get starch in the beer after the mash is to dump wheat flour into the boil. You need to add quite a bit of flour IMO and often when you see people take this route they are adding very little flour. If you've ever seen how thick and starchy turbid mash runnings are you would understand that adding a tablespoon or two of flour isn't enough. I'm not sure how much you need but you need more than that.

You could add the wheat to your sparge water or add it to the mash but in either case you risk poor starch extraction from the wheat without some kind of protein rest or boil (cereal mash) first. Unmalted wheat does not give good extraction without one or both. If you're using a pregelatinized form then this step has already been addressed for you.

Another idea for you is to conduct a short mash--like ten minutes. Get the starches soluble and start conversion but cut it off with a mash out after 10-15 minutes to leave behind unconverted starches and dextrins. Not sure where the sweet spot would be on time but it would need to be early and you would have to denature the enzymes to halt conversion.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2015, 05:23:01 PM »
Haven't done one yet but if I did it would be about 1.040 and 50/50 wheat dme and light dme. I'd do a 30 min boil and hop with about a half ounce of something low AA. Just enough for it to qualify as beer. I would cool ship it down to pitching temp overnight probably,  which would also qualify it as spontaneous. Then I would pitch a blend of my choice,  maybe roselare or whatever. Maybe some dregs from a bottle or two of something good. Id let it ride in the fermentor for as long as I could stand it, and maybe toss in a spiral a month or so before bottling.

After reading this I had to lie down for half an hour to calm down and catch my breath  ;)
Frank P.

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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2015, 05:27:16 PM »
The thing is, this is a going to be a collective effort of 10-20 people all making a lambic in their own location, from all the corners of Belgium, and then to combine the lambics into one large vessel to mature. So what I need is a simple procedure that can be standardized, so that everyone brews their beer in the same way. Only difference would be local bugs. And that's why I'd prefer no turbid mash - too complicated for a group effort.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 07:00:22 PM by homoeccentricus »
Frank P.

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Offline AmandaK

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 06:55:00 PM »
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 07:09:00 PM »
This is Belgium speaking. You get cut up into tiny fries, and force fed to Manneke Pis if you propose to put wheat malt extract in a lambic.
Frank P.

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Offline AmandaK

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 07:29:46 PM »
This is Belgium speaking. You get cut up into tiny fries, and force fed to Manneke Pis if you propose to put wheat malt extract in a lambic.
You asked for simple! ;)
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 07:32:17 PM »
I guess I underestimated how simple simple can be ;)
Frank P.

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Offline brewinhard

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2015, 09:34:05 PM »
For a 5.5 gallon batch

60% belgian pilsner malt, 40% malted wheat, .5 oz of lowest AA% noble hop you can find (old is okay). Mash around 158-160F.   OG 1.048-1.050.

 You really only want about 5-8 IBU's (no more, although I have even made lambics with no hops at all and won medals in this fashion, so you really don't need any).

 As you are bringing your lambic up to a boil, steep 1# flaked wheat in a mesh bag and remove just as boil begins (this will help you get some starches for a long secondary fermentation).  Or you can also add some maltodextrin to the boil for this purpose (8 oz is more than sufficient).   

Pitch your choice of wild critters, no aeration. 

I have gone through the turbid mashing regimen a few times only to find that it just really didn't make a difference on the home-brewed scale.  Much easier with the above process.  It is more about patience with the fermentation process. 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 09:36:23 PM by brewinhard »

Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: lambic simple recipe
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2015, 10:39:39 PM »
For a 5.5 gallon batch

60% belgian pilsner malt, 40% malted wheat, .5 oz of lowest AA% noble hop you can find (old is okay). Mash around 158-160F.   OG 1.048-1.050.

 You really only want about 5-8 IBU's (no more, although I have even made lambics with no hops at all and won medals in this fashion, so you really don't need any).

 As you are bringing your lambic up to a boil, steep 1# flaked wheat in a mesh bag and remove just as boil begins (this will help you get some starches for a long secondary fermentation).  Or you can also add some maltodextrin to the boil for this purpose (8 oz is more than sufficient).   

Pitch your choice of wild critters, no aeration. 

I have gone through the turbid mashing regimen a few times only to find that it just really didn't make a difference on the home-brewed scale.  Much easier with the above process.  It is more about patience with the fermentation process.

How long do you boil this?
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.