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Author Topic: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!  (Read 19134 times)

Offline charles1968

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2015, 02:53:36 pm »
Why am I hearing the Life of Brian debate in my head? Whether or not Roger has a right to Want to be pregnant, even though he hasn't a womb for the fetus to gestate...

Judean People's Front?
People's Front of Judea

F*cking splitters!

Offline charles1968

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2015, 02:56:09 pm »
What an age to live in! I can read nine pages of a derailed thread about the “German-ness” of a beer style that 99% of US beer drinkers couldn’t name.

It’s about as amazing as the other forum I follow: Minnesota Twins baseball - where we passionately discuss which middle relief pitchers are worth extending arbitration offers to or which C-level prospect might move from A to AA next spring or if it’s worth it to carry an aging 41 year old outfielder on the 40-man roster (problem solved guys, he's retiring). All of this riveting discussion in just the first week of a long off-season of a middling team.

It's an internet forum, it comes with the territory.


The key thing is never to take it personally. Though it IS annoying when people misread your posts.

rabeb25

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2015, 02:58:19 pm »
What an age to live in! I can read nine pages of a derailed thread about the “German-ness” of a beer style that 99% of US beer drinkers couldn’t name.

It’s about as amazing as the other forum I follow: Minnesota Twins baseball - where we passionately discuss which middle relief pitchers are worth extending arbitration offers to or which C-level prospect might move from A to AA next spring or if it’s worth it to carry an aging 41 year old outfielder on the 40-man roster (problem solved guys, he's retiring). All of this riveting discussion in just the first week of a long off-season of a middling team.

Cool you must be from MN then, I as well. Are you a helles fan?

Offline BrewingRover

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2015, 03:09:47 pm »
Why am I hearing the Life of Brian debate in my head? Whether or not Roger has a right to Want to be pregnant, even though he hasn't a womb for the fetus to gestate...

Judean People's Front?
People's Front of Judea

I thought we were the Homebrewers Association of America.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

Offline Indy574

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2015, 04:10:52 pm »
Thanks Marshall love the articles. I try to repurpose my water as much as possible as I hate to let it go down the drain. Use to water the garden with it but with the seasons changing I will need to repurpose it for the laundry like another poster mentioned.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #125 on: November 10, 2015, 05:23:13 pm »

I do think some people are (understandably) missing the point about the Brulosophy branded beer. The brulosophy philosophy is unashamedly iconoclastic and unorthodox. It's all about challenging preconceptions. The Munich Helles is sold as a German lager but is not fermented at lager temperature, does not have a lager yeast, is not lagered (at least not in a conventional sense), and is not made from German ingredients. It couldn't possibly be less Reinheitsgebot. But the point is that it's getting in the right ballpark by doing everything in an unconventional way.

My only criticism is the branding, which I think is too plain and literal. I'd have called it "This is not Munich Helles" or "Munich Duff" or come up with some other irreverent or witty name that references Munich Helles but doesn't literally claim to be one. I think the lack of irony in the branding is what's thrown so many people. As I said, understandable. And I do think Kolsch yeast makes cracking lagers, even though to my palate there's always an unmistakeable creamy Kolschness about them.

Uh huh.

I tend to think the name, a mere label, sort of plays into this philosophy.
The key thing is never to take it personally. Though it IS annoying when people misread your posts.

I was far more entertained than annoyed.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #126 on: November 10, 2015, 07:03:50 pm »
Great experiment as always. And I really tried not to but I can't help myself. Kolsch yeast has a very distinctive flavor that you shouldn't get out of a lager yeast. If I didn't know any better and wasn't looking for it I may miss it. But if you told me that one was kolsch and one was lager I could pick it out very easily.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #127 on: November 10, 2015, 08:43:18 pm »
Great experiment as always. And I really tried not to but I can't help myself. Kolsch yeast has a very distinctive flavor that you shouldn't get out of a lager yeast. If I didn't know any better and wasn't looking for it I may miss it. But if you told me that one was kolsch and one was lager I could pick it out very easily.

With all do respect, I doubt it. I thought the same thing, my friends thought the same thing, so many people have thought the same thing.

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #128 on: November 10, 2015, 08:54:38 pm »
I'm just surprised that the subject of decoction as being necessary to a true Helles has not been raised -  :o :o
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2015, 09:31:24 pm »
I'm just surprised that the subject of decoction as being necessary to a true Helles has not been raised -  :o :o
Small t true, no. But if you are going to capitalize the T as in True helles, then yes. Wait, Yes.

Offline Whiskers

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #130 on: November 11, 2015, 12:59:51 am »
I have a vewwy good fwend names biggus, decoctius. 

Offline majorvices

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #131 on: November 11, 2015, 05:55:24 am »
Great experiment as always. And I really tried not to but I can't help myself. Kolsch yeast has a very distinctive flavor that you shouldn't get out of a lager yeast. If I didn't know any better and wasn't looking for it I may miss it. But if you told me that one was kolsch and one was lager I could pick it out very easily.

With all do respect, I doubt it. I thought the same thing, my friends thought the same thing, so many people have thought the same thing.

I'm willing to send you my address. :)

I can tell very easily, but it definitely helps if one knows what he or she is looking for. If you do a completely blind taste test it certainly can throw people off.

i can easily tell the difference between the WY and WL strain as well. A friend of mine who owns a brewery did a kolsch recently and I knew right away they used their standard neutral ale strain because it didn't taste like a kolsch. In fact, I think it is possible to use Chico or Wy1007 to trick people into thinking a beer is a lager than it is a kolsch strain.

None of that is meant to take away from your excellent experiments. You have all my respect.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 06:00:07 am by majorvices »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #132 on: November 11, 2015, 06:03:06 am »
Since this thread has been one giant derail anyway, I'll say that the fact that 029 is so mild (and dare say sort of lager like) is exactly why I prefer 2565 for kolsch. It's just a better kolsch strain IMO, aside from being a PITA to clear.
Jon H.

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #133 on: November 11, 2015, 06:15:27 am »

I'm just surprised that the subject of decoction as being necessary to a true Helles has not been raised -  :o :o

Don't wake them back up from their slumbers. They just calmed down about it.

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!
« Reply #134 on: November 11, 2015, 06:16:07 am »
Great experiment as always. And I really tried not to but I can't help myself. Kolsch yeast has a very distinctive flavor that you shouldn't get out of a lager yeast. If I didn't know any better and wasn't looking for it I may miss it. But if you told me that one was kolsch and one was lager I could pick it out very easily.

With all do respect, I doubt it. I thought the same thing, my friends thought the same thing, so many people have thought the same thing.

I'm willing to send you my address. :)

I can tell very easily, but it definitely helps if one knows what he or she is looking for. If you do a completely blind taste test it certainly can throw people off.

i can easily tell the difference between the WY and WL strain as well. A friend of mine who owns a brewery did a kolsch recently and I knew right away they used their standard neutral ale strain because it didn't taste like a kolsch. In fact, I think it is possible to use Chico or Wy1007 to trick people into thinking a beer is a lager than it is a kolsch strain.

None of that is meant to take away from your excellent experiments. You have all my respect.

100% respect to you as well! This isn't contentious, just a fun conversation, that's how I view it.

I'm curious how you're sure you "can tell very easily"? Have you done side by sides? Bias is certainly a powerful thing.

So awhile back, we adapted the xBmt survey to allow people to repeat the triangle test following revelation of the variable. Basically, they would complete the triangle test totally blind then we'd tell them what the test was about and allow them to re-evaluate the beers and take the triangle test again. This stemmed from a couple others swearing knowledge of the variable would make a difference.

It didn't. At all. Of close to 100 participants over multiple xBmts, an entire 1 changed their original response... and it was from the correct beer to one of the wrong ones. I get it, we don't like to hear that we're not as good as we think we are, it's human nature to want to believe we are good at what we think we're good at.

I'm speaking only of WLP029. We've compared it to WY2565 and people were reliably able to distinguish the odd beer out:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/08/31/yeast-comparison-white-labs-wlp029-vs-wyeast-wy2565-xbmt-results/

But compared to 34/70, I'm telling you, they were close enough to fool some of the best evaluators I know:

http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/13/lager-fermentation-traditional-yeast-vs-hybrid-yeast-exbeeriment-results/

I probably won't send you any beer, may not even repeat this one in the near future, but I can't recommend more doing this very simple comparison for yourself!