[Stevie]

Good job Marshall.

I collect all of my chill water and reuse it in the washing machine. This obviously only works for top load machines, but at least feel like I'm not wasting. I do end up dumping my oxiclean solution and of course I go through 5-10 gallons cleaning up and rinsing my kettle and tun.

I've been meaning to try chilling 100% with a sump pump. Sure it won't be as fast as ground water, but with recirculation in the kettle and recirculation of the chill water, I think I can do it with 12 gallons of water plus some ice water.

[Stevie]

Hell hath no fury like German beer zealots scorned...

+ 1

And how dare you force carbonate Marshall. Jeez

[pmonti80]

I have recently seen somewhere that if you drop quickly the temps to 80ºC (I think it was that) before your "no chill" you can leave the rest of the job to the no chill method so that you don’t have to deal with isomerization problems. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but may be worth a shot.

[Stevie]

I found the solution... Rename to "helle-ish"

[dmtaylor]

Real Kolsch is only made in Koln.  It is an appellation.

If your palate can't tell the difference, a helles is a helles.

But...Not a 'Munich Helles'.

Exactly.

This xbmt makes me wonder what impact my chilling technique has on beer quality.  For the past 12 or 13 years, I have done immersion cooling in a tub sink with cold water.  With cold Wisconsin ground water, this gets down to pitching temperature within about an hour, or less for smaller batches (yay again!).  I do not own a typical chiller, nor will I ever unless it is gifted to me and then I might not use it.  But....... if I found out this was hurting my beer, maybe I'd change.  Maybe.  But I think no one will ever run this xbmt including myself.

[HoosierBrew]

Hell hath no fury like German beer zealots scorned...

+ 1

And how dare you force carbonate Marshall. Jeez

+2.  Appellations and styles aside, this WAS a chill/no chill xBmt , not a yeast xBmt.

[germanbrew]

Real Kolsch is only made in Koln.  It is an appellation.

If your palate can't tell the difference, a helles is a helles.

I agree what that statement.   And if our homebrews stand up in a blind tasting against the likes of Weihenstephan or other German originals, we can brew it however we like and call it that style. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Kölsch is an Obergäriges Lagerbier in Germany. Lager means to store, Alt and Kölsch are cold conditioned, so they are lagers to the Germans.

As Dave points out Kölsch is only made in the area of Köln (Cologne).

[germanbrew]

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way.. you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your "helles" with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can't tell a difference there, I will then be "sold". Still won't call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the "US05" of lager yeasts.

I mean... compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there's a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn't the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I'm not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Good job Marshall.

I collect all of my chill water and reuse it in the washing machine. This obviously only works for top load machines, but at least feel like I'm not wasting. I do end up dumping my oxiclean solution and of course I go through 5-10 gallons cleaning up and rinsing my kettle and tun.

I've been meaning to try chilling 100% with a sump pump. Sure it won't be as fast as ground water, but with recirculation in the kettle and recirculation of the chill water, I think I can do it with 12 gallons of water plus some ice water.

when i need to chill into the 40's range, I use my hydra chiller on tap water for first 3-4minutes to drop temp into 80's, then hook to my pump recirculating in ice cooler. minimizes water consumption and total chill time to get 45-48F is about 8-9 minutes.

[tommymorris]

Why is it important to squeeze the air out of the cube with no chill? Is that for sanitation? Just curious.

Interesting exbeeriment.

[brulosopher]

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates... I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn't produce bad beer, it doesn't produce the best possible beer.

It's hard to let it be, when he's now partnered with a homebrew supply company & will be pawning his nonsense off as beer kits that are sold as 'Munich Helles'.
That, to me, is bothersome.
It's not a Munich Helles...
It's a light ale.

What's nonsense to me is thinking a style is defined by the type of yeast used and not the ultimate character of the beer.

One of my favorite American IPAs is fermented with the Fullers strain.

[brulosopher]

Real Kolsch is only made in Koln.  It is an appellation.

If your palate can't tell the difference, a helles is a helles.

But...Not a 'Munich Helles'.

Oh god...

[brulosopher]

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way.. you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your "helles" with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can't tell a difference there, I will then be "sold". Still won't call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the "US05" of lager yeasts.

I mean... compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there's a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn't the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I'm not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

I've done that plenty of times, my Helles with 029 comes closer than anything I've made using traditional yeast.

I get that people are married to their perspectives, that's exactly why I started Brülosophy in the first place... and chose this as the first kit release

[AmandaK]

What's nonsense to me is thinking a style is defined by the type of yeast used and not the ultimate character of the beer.

Amen, brother.

Can we all get back to the original topic?