[mabrungard]

Zum Uerige has a reputation for not traveling well.

Jeff and I know some friends that just returned from a visit to Dusseldorf. They picked up bottles that were incredibly fresh and tasting great while at Uerige. When they got their stash back to Indy, the beer had suffered in that short week or two.

I'd say that this lends some credence to the notion that we should try and eliminate or reduce these various oxidizing impacts. 

[denny]

I'd say that this lends some credence to the notion that we should try and eliminate or reduce these various oxidizing impacts.

Martin, I'm not sure anyone disputes that.  For me at least, the question is how far do I want to go to eliminate it?  What's a reasonable process for me as a homebrewer?

[homoeccentricus]

Not sure whether you can see this: https://www.facebook.com/struise/videos/10207532345089194/

A short video of De Struise Brouwers mashing technique. Lots and lots of splashing. When I commented "I've been meaning to ask you some questions about HSA, but I think I now have all the answers  ", head brewer Urbain replied "If you consider the malt water mixture going down the kettle wall as HSA, cool for me. That's probably the real and only cause our beers are so bad. Plus they don't age at all either. Stop losing my precious time with bulls*** ". To which I replied "ooh, I think I hit a nerve there". And Urbain: "Frank that was my sarcastic way to say you know better".

It makes you wonder about HSA when one of the top brewers of Belgium makes this kind of (tongue in cheek) statement.

[mabrungard]

Martin, I'm not sure anyone disputes that.  For me at least, the question is how far do I want to go to eliminate it?  What's a reasonable process for me as a homebrewer?

Totally agree! I can implement elements in my system and procedures that get closer to those supposed ideals, but I don't know that I could ever achieve perfection in that respect...nor that I could perceive it in my beers. It just seems like things that might make a difference. 

[hopfenundmalz]

I wondered if they had an older bottling line, but on their web page, it looks to be very modern. Maybe the swing top is not the best for O2, but other beers in swing tops hold up fairly well.

http://www.uerige.de/en/brauerei-brauprozess.html

[brewinhard]

I wondered if they had an older bottling line, but on their web page, it looks to be very modern. Maybe the swing top is not the best for O2, but other beers in swing tops hold up fairly well.

http://www.uerige.de/en/brauerei-brauprozess.html

I have never found swing top beers to be the best for minimizing oxidation.

[hopfenundmalz]

I wondered if they had an older bottling line, but on their web page, it looks to be very modern. Maybe the swing top is not the best for O2, but other beers in swing tops hold up fairly well.

http://www.uerige.de/en/brauerei-brauprozess.html

I have never found swing top beers to be the best for minimizing oxidation.

That may be a big part of it. In Germany beers were bought by the case for your weekly consumption.

[brewinhard]

Yeah, I wouldn't figure that a moderate gravity altbier should be noticeably oxidized at just a few weeks old (at least in a normal crown capped bottle).

[scrap iron]

That may be a big part of it. In Germany beers were bought by the case for your weekly consumption.
[/quote]                                                                                                                                                 I know that's right, I was stationed in West Germany in the mid 80's and lived off Post with my family. There  was a beer truck that came around delivering beer to your doorstep by the case just like the Milkman, if your old enough to remember that. They would leave a card to select the beers you wanted and pick up the empties. I had the time of my life.   Prost!

[homoeccentricus]

Zum Uerige has a reputation for not traveling well.

Jeff and I know some friends that just returned from a visit to Dusseldorf. They picked up bottles that were incredibly fresh and tasting great while at Uerige. When they got their stash back to Indy, the beer had suffered in that short week or two.

I'd say that this lends some credence to the notion that we should try and eliminate or reduce these various oxidizing impacts.

I'd say that this lends some credence to the notion that we should try and eliminate or reduce these various oxidizing impacts.

Martin, I'm not sure anyone disputes that.  For me at least, the question is how far do I want to go to eliminate it?  What's a reasonable process for me as a homebrewer?

Maybe there is no simple answer to this question. After my last visit to Germany it has become clear to me that many German beers suffer quickly from oxidation. That seems to be less so for Belgian beers (some even benefit from a bit of oxidation) or some types of dark beers.  But how are IPAs affected? And aren't there some lower levels of oxidation that subliminally change the taste of beers in a negative way?

[beersk]

     

                                                                                                                                          I know that's right, I was stationed in West Germany in the mid 80's and lived off Post with my family. There  was a beer truck that came around delivering beer to your doorstep by the case just like the Milkman, if your old enough to remember that. They would leave a card to select the beers you wanted and pick up the empties. I had the time of my life.   Prost!

Wow, I bet. That's cool!

[narvin]

Not sure whether you can see this: https://www.facebook.com/struise/videos/10207532345089194/

A short video of De Struise Brouwers mashing technique. Lots and lots of splashing. When I commented "I've been meaning to ask you some questions about HSA, but I think I now have all the answers  ", head brewer Urbain replied "If you consider the malt water mixture going down the kettle wall as HSA, cool for me. That's probably the real and only cause our beers are so bad. Plus they don't age at all either. Stop losing my precious time with bulls*** ". To which I replied "ooh, I think I hit a nerve there". And Urbain: "Frank that was my sarcastic way to say you know better".

It makes you wonder about HSA when one of the top brewers of Belgium makes this kind of (tongue in cheek) statement.

I absolutely think that HSA is not an issue in Belgian beers, from seeing the way some breweries make their beers.  Grant?  Check.  Copper?  Check.  Big ass mash filter from 1900? Check!

Lagers seem to benefit from... lagering.  Even more so than using gelatin, which makes me think it's a polyphenol issue.  I still haven't ordered any Brewtan, but the Brewbrite that people down under like so much is basically carrageenan and pvpp.  I might try some pvpp in the whirlpool on my Oktoberfest to see if there's any difference in lagering time to achieve the desired taste.