Author Topic: can someone explain  (Read 6003 times)

Offline capozzoli

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2010, 06:54:33 PM »
Yeah, I was going to say Chernobyl.

Didnt Russia have one of these deep oil leaks that they stopped with a nuclear explosion?

Beerocd may have the right idea.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2010, 09:09:00 PM »
Didnt Russia have one of these deep oil leaks that they stopped with a nuclear explosion?

Not nearly this deep, though. The hydrostatic pressure means an explosion wouldn't do it, from what I gather.
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Offline tubercle

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2010, 09:24:42 PM »
I wonder why they don't just send tons of concrete down a tube and cover the thing up? Seems like the pressure of the pile of hardening concrete would eventually overcome the pressure of the oil coming out. I'm not a civil engineer, just a hillbilly that masquerades as a home brewer, but it seems like it would work.

Occam's Razor.
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Offline tygo

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2010, 03:13:43 AM »
I wonder why they don't just send tons of concrete down a tube and cover the thing up? Seems like the pressure of the pile of hardening concrete would eventually overcome the pressure of the oil coming out. I'm not a civil engineer, just a hillbilly that masquerades as a home brewer, but it seems like it would work.

Occam's Razor.

Perhaps, but then they wouldn't be able to keep pumping oil out of the well in the future, which I'm sure is a major consideration of BP's.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2010, 03:33:36 AM »
I wonder why they don't just send tons of concrete down a tube and cover the thing up? Seems like the pressure of the pile of hardening concrete would eventually overcome the pressure of the oil coming out. I'm not a civil engineer, just a hillbilly that masquerades as a home brewer, but it seems like it would work.

Occam's Razor.

Perhaps, but then they wouldn't be able to keep pumping oil out of the well in the future, which I'm sure is a major consideration of BP's.

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Offline loopy

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2010, 07:37:14 PM »
they cannot cap the top of the well because the well is also leaking somewhere between 1000 feet and 14000 feet under the seafloor.  in multiple places.  that oil is following fissures in the rock formations (sandstone and salt formations) and escaping from the floor directly.  capping the top forces the oil out of those locations and creates a situation they cannot control.  (mysterious plumes).  there is no illusions of preserving this well for further use.  besides, there would be nothing stopping them from sinking a new well 1500 feet from the old well and getting access to the same field if that was the desire.  they still own the rights to the field ..  for now at least. 


Offline capozzoli

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2010, 07:54:10 PM »
So what is the idea of drilling relief wells? Isnt that what they are trying to do now? Relieve the pressure so the repairs can be made?

If they drill relief wells wont they be keeping the oil they get?

What a mess.
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Offline loopy

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2010, 09:05:55 PM »
So what is the idea of drilling relief wells? Isnt that what they are trying to do now? Relieve the pressure so the repairs can be made?

If they drill relief wells wont they be keeping the oil they get?

What a mess.

look at this, it's a bit old but completely relevant.  

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/costly_time-consuming_test_of.html

Quote
Spaces between pipes not closed off

Probert also presented Congress with a schematic of BP's cementing plan, which he repeatedly said his firm followed to a T. Although he never mentioned it in his written or verbal testimony, the drawing Probert attached to his prepared testimony May 11 shows what drilling experts say is a key design flaw that could easily have allowed a blast of natural gas to shoot to the surface undetected and destroy the rig before the crew of 126 knew what hit them.

oil-halliburton-cement-052010.jpgView full sizeThe graphic shows the wellhead 5,067 feet below the water's surface and the bottom of the well more than 13,000 feet below that. It diagrams how the drill pipes telescoped down in sections -- some about 2,000 feet long, some shorter and others longer.

With each section, one metal tube fits inside another, leaving a space called an "annulus" where heavy drilling mud can circulate and carry the drilled-out material back up to the surface. According to the diagram, one of the spaces between different-sized pipes was not closed off -- a no-no, according to some experts.

"It looks pretty on paper, but you can't accomplish that successfully and have a good cement job," said Tom McFarland, a cementing consultant from Marrero who has decades of experience cementing oil wells. "The chance of getting a good cement job on that is nil."

McFarland said the diagram indicates the space was completely open to the reservoir of oil the Deepwater Horizon had just tapped, and he is convinced that is why the well blew.

No O-ring seal depicted

McCormack, the University of Texas professor, isn't so sure that the blowout went through the annulus, rather than breaching the center of the well and blowing out the top. But either way, he was baffled by the diagram Halliburton gave to Congress. He was so surprised by the lack of an O-ring seal that he wondered if it was an error.

"There's a free path all the way to the top of the well bore. Normally you wouldn't do that," he said. "If the well was completed as designed, I think that would be an issue the way it's shown there."

A picture being worth a thousand words, here is the visual: edited - heres the link because the forum seems to be making this too smal to read.
http://media.nola.com/2010_gulf_oil_spill/photo/oil-halliburton-cement-052010jpg-e618a2271a66c847.jpg



--

There is a full gap in the well bore where oil and gas is escaping 10000+feet under the seafloor.  

As for your question, what is the idea of the relief wells?  

The basic premise of sealing the well is to stop the flow and seal it in concrete.  At 5000 feet under sea level (the seafloor) the pressure of the area is 2000 psi.  At 17000 feet under the sea floor, near the area of the oil, the pressure is closer to 7000 psi.  That oil is coming up and spraying like a sandblaster.  The well drilling process has processes to equalize pressures, using the "mud".  That mud is basically bentonite, the grey clay they use in sealing ponds or for fining wines.  It's a heavy clay and with the assistance of pressure pumps they pump it down to meet the pressure of oil coming up.  The idea is the balance the pressure - ie, 5000 psi pushing up and 5000 psi pushing down.  This effectively stops the flow, once they achieve that they can pump in cement and concrete like materials to perm seal it.  But they cant pump concrete into a gushing hole because it has to set and be stable.  They have to balance pressure to do that.  

They attempted to push mud in on the top via the "top kill" and all the mud just went right out the holes in the casing.  Thats why it failed.  The relief wells and the concept behind it is that they get underneath the portion of the well that is broken and begin pushing mud there.  If they can balance the pressure, then they can seal it below the broken pipe and really seal it.  

They are drilling two wells, and these reliefe wells have a target about the size of a dinner plate.  they literally intersect into the existing pipe.  once they penetrate, they begin pumping the mud to balance pressure.

Thats my understanding of the mechanics and what they are trying to do.  
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 09:08:04 PM by loopy »

Offline dean

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2010, 06:24:41 AM »
Its been a long while but on land, the BOP is set after the casing is put in.  Humans crawl under the BOP and installing nuts and bolts, tightening it securely.  While I've never worked on an offshore rig, I can't imagine the BOP was set any other way except that it must have been placed and tightened by submersive robots.  The rig itself would support the weight of the BOP and I'm sure there are ships plenty large enough to support another replacement.  Ocean currents were flowing there when they set the original BOP, sure they'll have a hard time seeing but that shouldn't stop them from trying... can't never did anything.  Now we're in hurricane season... No End In Sight.  

Ever wonder if this was planned...

The only thing I can say is BP better buy several thousand of the machines that K. Costner and his brother built, they look pretty promising and it would create some jobs as well.  JMO... if they can't get this fixed by Chrismas (including all ecological damages) the USA should "acquire" all of BP and its holdings, perhaps Halliburton as well.  You know as well as I do that they would seize any small company.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2010, 06:27:00 AM by dean »

Offline loopy

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2010, 01:46:01 PM »
... how we could put a man on the moon 40 years ago but cannot close a leaky pipe now.  isnt this basic plumbing?  put a cap on with the valve open, weld it, close the valve.  have we regressed that much in 40 years that it is now beyond the limits of our technology to fix a leaky pipe? 

glad to see they have it capped based on what the news is saying.  also scared witless that they did exactly what I thought was obvious a month ago.  Isn't this just basic mechnical or plumbing logic .. what the?  how on earth did it take 90 days to get this? 

Offline beerocd

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2010, 03:37:10 PM »
how on earth did it take 90 days to get this? 

Shipping from China by boat is slow. You don't think the part was made or stocked in the USA do you?
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Offline a10t2

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2010, 05:34:26 PM »
Or just because it's a massive, custom-fabricated steel part that has to withstand 5000 feet of water pressure on one side and 8000 psi of oil on the other.
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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2010, 09:42:39 PM »
Maybe they should have had a homebrewer on the project. Just saying.

Offline brewballs

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #73 on: July 17, 2010, 07:13:45 AM »
Quote
Or just because it's a massive, custom-fabricated steel part that has to withstand 5000 feet of water pressure on one side and 8000 psi of oil on the other.

I'm not defending BP for what happened, but I agree with the above. You don't just wave a magic wand and have a huge part like this suddenly appear.

Now we know how to fix a repair and what it takes, for the most part, to prevent one from ever happening. Now get back to drilling. We need the jobs and we need oil from our part of the world.
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Offline uthristy

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Re: can someone explain
« Reply #74 on: July 17, 2010, 09:37:23 AM »

 Now get back to drilling. We need the jobs and we need oil from our part of the world.

Tell me thats a fukn joke? we lost more in tourism/food production, never mind all the damages to the gulf and your worried about a few jobs and oil...  ::) >:(  Funny how the cost of gas went down during the spill.

Yeah real smart and  thinking for the longterm but it seems that americans can only think of today.