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Author Topic: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday  (Read 16593 times)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2015, 06:02:24 pm »
Brew day well underway. So far so good. The only hassle so far is that I need my pump for step mashing so that means I have to finish and rack batch 1 before I can start batch 2. Normally I start mashing the second batch about 30 minutes into the boil of the first batch. All good, I guess it forces me to not multi task.

One batch one the wort seems a lot lighter color than I am used to with that beer which is beginning to confirm in my mind that the last time I bought Vienna it was probably honey malt, since everyone picked up a honey note in that beer.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2015, 06:09:50 pm »
A couple thoughts came to mind about all this (listening to Kai and having similar plans:

Is 5.0 too low for a boil pH? I think Kai said he hits 5.3 or something.

Have you looked much into the whole protein rest thing? I've never tried it and it's a new concept to me but I read it can actually be detrimental if your malt is highly modified. Not positive yet what to look for in a malt analysis or in general if it's good for most german pils malts.
I heard him explain it on Basic Brewing and he said 5.0 there. He gave several reasons.

The chart I saw for protein rests if I recall correctly said it's good for ~40 kolbach and according to Best Malz their Pilsner is right in there. They give a scale and I think 40 is about middle of that scale.

We'll see, right?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2015, 06:15:13 pm »
A couple thoughts came to mind about all this (listening to Kai and having similar plans:

Is 5.0 too low for a boil pH? I think Kai said he hits 5.3 or something.

Have you looked much into the whole protein rest thing? I've never tried it and it's a new concept to me but I read it can actually be detrimental if your malt is highly modified. Not positive yet what to look for in a malt analysis or in general if it's good for most german pils malts.

I think protein rest is often times confused with a rest in the 132-136 range. Some people refer to this rest as a protein rest but it is a little outside of that range. I have not used a true protein rest in the 122 deg F range for any type of beer.
My blichmann brewmometer shows 112-132 for protein rest, 122 is dead center obviously. I went with 132 just cuz that's what Kai said on a basic brewing podcast. And I heard somewhere that Strong does it too with continental pils.

Time will tell. I may never do it again

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2015, 06:50:42 pm »
I targeted 1.048 on batch 1, used my normal efficiency to calculate and my actual OG was... drum roll... 1.048. So, I'm guessing the step mash will not change my efficiency. Well... brewhouse efficiency anyway. I normally use an extra half gallon of water and boil 90 min. This was a half gallon less and 60 min boil. Per Marshall's experiment, and then hearing Kai say that he boils 60 min, 30 at a simmer and 30 at full boil, I decided to drop my time to 60. Reference Kai, he said he gets away with 60 by chilling fast. If you use a plate he suggests 90 min. I chill fast. Anyway, 

So far I got the same brewhouse efficiency when comparing 60 to 90 min boil and, it seems to be lighter colored wort. Not side by side obviously, but in the past this beer came out about light gold. This one is going to be pale straw. As said before there may have been a grain mistake issue in the past.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:45:48 pm by klickitat jim »

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2015, 09:06:48 pm »
Interesting stuff, looking forward to how this turns out.

Offline BrodyR

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2015, 09:16:42 pm »
A couple thoughts came to mind about all this (listening to Kai and having similar plans:

Is 5.0 too low for a boil pH? I think Kai said he hits 5.3 or something.

Have you looked much into the whole protein rest thing? I've never tried it and it's a new concept to me but I read it can actually be detrimental if your malt is highly modified. Not positive yet what to look for in a malt analysis or in general if it's good for most german pils malts.
I heard him explain it on Basic Brewing and he said 5.0 there. He gave several reasons.

The chart I saw for protein rests if I recall correctly said it's good for ~40 kolbach and according to Best Malz their Pilsner is right in there. They give a scale and I think 40 is about middle of that scale.

We'll see, right?

Here's a nice link on it (solid blog overall) https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/tag/kolbach/. Looks like as the malt gets more modified the temp of the rest goes up and duration drops. Looks like you made the right call opting for the higher rest temp.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2015, 09:23:21 pm »
One other thing I'm doing which might throw off the final results is relistening to Kai's basic brewing podcasts while brewing these beers. So I won't be able to say for sure if the differences were from the techniques or from the sound of his voice lol.

It did give me a chance to pay better attention when he mentioned that 5.0 ph adjustment post mash/pre boil. It sounds like that does 3 things. It helps protein coagulation. It effects hop utilization and produces a less harsh bittering. And it gives the yeast a leg up. Yeast lower the ph to aid in nutrition uptake apparently. So dropping it part of the way for them supposedly helps.

Crap, I'm quoting Kai! What happened to me? Lol

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2015, 09:25:31 pm »
A couple thoughts came to mind about all this (listening to Kai and having similar plans:

Is 5.0 too low for a boil pH? I think Kai said he hits 5.3 or something.

Have you looked much into the whole protein rest thing? I've never tried it and it's a new concept to me but I read it can actually be detrimental if your malt is highly modified. Not positive yet what to look for in a malt analysis or in general if it's good for most german pils malts.
I heard him explain it on Basic Brewing and he said 5.0 there. He gave several reasons.

The chart I saw for protein rests if I recall correctly said it's good for ~40 kolbach and according to Best Malz their Pilsner is right in there. They give a scale and I think 40 is about middle of that scale.

We'll see, right?

Here's a nice link on it (solid blog overall) https://edelstoffquest.wordpress.com/tag/kolbach/. Looks like as the malt gets more modified the temp of the rest goes up and duration drops. Looks like you made the right call opting for the higher rest temp.
I have that chart. But all of this stuff is short term memory for me. Quick in, quick out. When it's all said and done I might be even stupider than before.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2015, 10:23:19 pm »
Batch 2 is in the kettle finally, last acid addition made. All I have to do now is watch my clock for hops. So time to crack a cold one. Celebration 2015 should go nicely with this.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2015, 10:54:37 pm »
Hmmm, the boil just started on this second batch and I'm noticing something. Normally it smells like wort boiling. This one has made my shop smell like a fresh sack of malt. I'm hoping that is a clue that I'm heading in the right direction

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2015, 01:18:41 am »
OG on the second batch was a couple points lower than expected, and the right volume, so I am prepared to rule out step mash as a way of increasing efficiency. Besides, with my normal wage I could buy a half sack of Best Malz with the extra time it took. So unless these beers have something else special about them like uber flavor and mouthfeel, I'm not really seeing the advantage just yet. Time will tell though.

By the way the 1LO2HK starters took 12 hrs at 50F to reach HK. They looked like they could have been pitched anytime beteeen 12hrs and maybe 18hrs. They were definitely in log phase, whether that was peaked... doubt it. I have a plan in mind for how to tell with yeast that are hard to tell, but I need to confirm it next brewday before I share it.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 01:32:28 am by klickitat jim »

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2015, 04:59:03 pm »
Beers fermenting nicely. I've decided to use Marshall's lager plan. They are set at 50F now and reading 51F actual. At ~50% attenuation im going to move the temp probe to ambient and set the controller to 68F. I'm going to put my digital thermometer in the heat shield on the fermenter and check actual temp daily to track the temp slope of the beer.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2015, 02:39:30 am »
One other thing I'm doing which might throw off the final results is relistening to Kai's basic brewing podcasts while brewing these beers. So I won't be able to say for sure if the differences were from the techniques or from the sound of his voice lol.

It did give me a chance to pay better attention when he mentioned that 5.0 ph adjustment post mash/pre boil. It sounds like that does 3 things. It helps protein coagulation. It effects hop utilization and produces a less harsh bittering. And it gives the yeast a leg up. Yeast lower the ph to aid in nutrition uptake apparently. So dropping it part of the way for them supposedly helps.

Crap, I'm quoting Kai! What happened to me? Lol
Brewing lagers happened.

Step mashes are said to result in a more fermentable wort, so check your attenuation between the brews.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2015, 03:20:22 am »
One other thing I'm doing which might throw off the final results is relistening to Kai's basic brewing podcasts while brewing these beers. So I won't be able to say for sure if the differences were from the techniques or from the sound of his voice lol.

It did give me a chance to pay better attention when he mentioned that 5.0 ph adjustment post mash/pre boil. It sounds like that does 3 things. It helps protein coagulation. It effects hop utilization and produces a less harsh bittering. And it gives the yeast a leg up. Yeast lower the ph to aid in nutrition uptake apparently. So dropping it part of the way for them supposedly helps.

Crap, I'm quoting Kai! What happened to me? Lol
Brewing lagers happened.

Step mashes are said to result in a more fermentable wort, so check your attenuation between the brews.
For sure. And that's part of why I'm doing all of this, so I can say "Yup it's true" or "nope not for me" on several things that have been said.

Offline AmandaK

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Re: Upcoming Rube Goldberg Brewday
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2015, 04:34:28 pm »
I'll be adding another data point to the step mash vs single infusion mash here soon. Myles (out of habit with a 10g brewery) bought me two packs of WY2206 for an upcoming Pilsner. I think the only logical thing to do is to brew a Hochkurz mashed German Pilsner in the morning and a 150F mashed German Pilsner in the afternoon. Worst case is I have 5 gallons of Pilsner.  8)

I'm curious mostly about efficiency on this new system, but I'll also be monitoring fermentability (with FFTs) and aroma/flavor. I've been doing Hochkurz mashes because of Kai's website, so I'm curious if it makes a difference to me.
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