[AmandaK]

Which method is the one you chilled and carbed?

Both were brewed with same hochkurz step mash.

Ah, dangit. Long day of many activities here.

At any rate, I'm also doing kettle pH adjustments on these like Kai talks about. Should be neat to see the difference between this and my normal Pilsner.

[BrodyR]

Looking forward to hearing about these brews from you guys. I've been doing a lot of reading (also mostly Kai) on the German methods to start dialing in my Helles & Pilsners. Think once I feel good with the methods I'll do a side by side too.

[klickitat jim]

Terminal gravity reached, started cold crash to 30F.
Apparentl attenuation was 87% on both beers. The Helles finished 1.009/4.1 pH and the Export was 1.011/4.2 pH. Gelling tomorrow night, bottling Sunday.

[rabeb25]

Terminal gravity reached, started cold crash to 30F.
Apparentl attenuation was 87% on both beers. The Helles finished 1.009/4.1 pH and the Export was 1.011/4.2 pH. Gelling tomorrow night, bottling Sunday.

You best check your maths, there.

[klickitat jim]

Terminal gravity reached, started cold crash to 30F.
Apparentl attenuation was 87% on both beers. The Helles finished 1.009/4.1 pH and the Export was 1.011/4.2 pH. Gelling tomorrow night, bottling Sunday.

You best check your maths, there.

Its what Brewers Friend said... didn't actually do the math. I kept upping the attenuation until FG said what I got. I guess its actually more like 82.97%

[klickitat jim]

Kegged these two today. I quick carbed a sample of each from the leftovers. Let them sit in the fridge for a few hours. Keeping in mind that this was two weeks grain to glass and quick carbing beats the beer up pretty well, I must say these are the two best lagers ive ever made, hands down. Color is lighter than i usually get. Clarity is great, near brilliant. Bright white head  that looks like it will have good retention based on the lacing. Plenty of body. Finishes dry with a hint of malty sweetness. Im pretty convinced, or prepared to be convinced when they are actually done. I'm going to carb the kegs up in my lagering chest and leave them there a month. Then I might try to find a couple national/master volunteers to send a couple bottles to, to review them for an unbiased view point.

I'm already planning a re-brew of these using all the same techniques. Awesome beer!

[AmandaK]

Do the volunteers have to be close? 

[klickitat jim]

It would help. They will be bottled of the keg and I worry about how well those travel. Not to mention freezing this time of year. But if I strike out I'll keep it in mind

[rabeb25]

Kegged these two today. I quick carbed a sample of each from the leftovers. Let them sit in the fridge for a few hours. Keeping in mind that this was two weeks grain to glass and quick carbing beats the beer up pretty well, I must say these are the two best lagers ive ever made, hands down. Color is lighter than i usually get. Clarity is great, near brilliant. Bright white head  that looks like it will have good retention based on the lacing. Plenty of body. Finishes dry with a hint of malty sweetness. Im pretty convinced, or prepared to be convinced when they are actually done. I'm going to carb the kegs up in my lagering chest and leave them there a month. Then I might try to find a couple national/master volunteers to send a couple bottles to, to review them for an unbiased view point.

I'm already planning a re-brew of these using all the same techniques. Awesome beer!

You're welcome.

[klickitat jim]

Kegged these two today. I quick carbed a sample of each from the leftovers. Let them sit in the fridge for a few hours. Keeping in mind that this was two weeks grain to glass and quick carbing beats the beer up pretty well, I must say these are the two best lagers ive ever made, hands down. Color is lighter than i usually get. Clarity is great, near brilliant. Bright white head  that looks like it will have good retention based on the lacing. Plenty of body. Finishes dry with a hint of malty sweetness. Im pretty convinced, or prepared to be convinced when they are actually done. I'm going to carb the kegs up in my lagering chest and leave them there a month. Then I might try to find a couple national/master volunteers to send a couple bottles to, to review them for an unbiased view point.

I'm already planning a re-brew of these using all the same techniques. Awesome beer!

You're welcome.

Lol, it was you and techbrau that got me thinking about all this stuff. And yes, thanks!

[klickitat jim]

Glad it worked out for you, Jim. Now get some carahell in that grist 

I might try it some day. You suggest dump the Vienna and sub carahell?

[klickitat jim]

I will, thanks

[klickitat jim]

I've got my judges lined up. Look for posted results in about four weeks.

[narcout]

I tried something kind of similar last night.

First rest was at 145 for 40 minutes.  Mash pH was 5.37. 

I used a hot water infusion to bring it up to 155 for 30 minutes.  Mash pH after the infusion was 5.45. 

Pre-boil pH was 5.43 (doubt it actually changed from the 5.45; there is definitely a margin of error in taking these measurements). 

I added one teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid which brought  the pre-boil pH down to 5.33.  I'll probably knock it down a bit more on the next batch, but this is the first time I've tried messing with the boil pH and didn't want to overdo it.

Post-boil pH was unchanged at 5.33.

I pitched the dregs of an oxygenated, 2 liter starter made from 34/70 I harvested from a batch of German pilsner last month.  I'll try to remember to post the final beer pH after kegging.

[JT]

Really enjoyed reading through this Jim.  Couple questions: any idea how hot the recirculating wort was getting during the steps?  I doubt it matters, but I'm curious because I have a RIMS Rocket and am considering using it for this.  Also, do you recall how much acid it took to drop your pH to 5.0 in the kettle pre boil?  Lactic or phosphoric?  Did you check pH post boil?  I'm guessing it would have dropped further. 

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