[toby]

What constitutes a "professional beer judge"?

Edit: nevermind. Found it near the bottom.
Double edit: $40?? Our homebrew club membership is a steal at this rate!

I still don't see how one can be considered a "professional beer judge".

Is there a list of the BJCP ID's of the judges who will be evaluating the submissions?

Don't expect to see it.  This is a bit shady considering the BJCP bylaws.

The BJCP Bylaws do not allow one to charge for judging services. The bylaws do allow reimbursements.

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/BJCP_Bylaws.pdf

Ultimately, people can and do charge for their services. The BJCP prohibition would probably not hold up in court.

You think someone is going to sue if they get their rank/membership revoked?

[udubdawg]

And what if someone named Matt was taking the money, collecting beers, and his friends who are GM are reviewing beers for him, in exchange for Subway or pizza.  Matt scans/mails the reviews, etc...

...just sayin', I see ways around aforementioned problems. *shrug*  if Brewers Cup wants to give me a stipend for my travel or AHA wants to give $ to exam graders who judge the Finals, I won't turn it down.

[toby]

...just sayin', I see ways around aforementioned problems. *shrug*  if Brewers Cup wants to give me a stipend for my travel or AHA wants to give $ to exam graders who judge the Finals, I won't turn it down.

Those can easily be seen as reimbursements.  I guess it's possible that Matt has found a GM that's willing to let him keep any profits, though.  But then again, 'professional' implies that one is making money off of one's judging abilities. 

[udubdawg]

Obligatory "math is hard" - top .01% would suggest there are over a half million beer judges. 

[santoch]

Section 4 – Members.
  Members may not charge fees to perform judging duties,
although they may accept payments, in-kind donations, and/or expense
reimbursements if those are reasonable
and customary for specific events they
are attending.

I guess it can be argued that requiring payment for judging a competition is against the bylaws, but accepting reasonable payment for evaluation/troubleshooting services (because the recipe/process is attached) is ok.
It's a fine line on what exactly would constitute breaking these bylaws.  "Judging duties" to me sounds like judging in a competition setting, not evaluating a single beer or beers (with the recipes and their process info) for somebody to help them make it better <shrugs> [edit - free tickets to the State Fair are customarily given out to the judges, and also the schwag that they get. These things fall into this camp of customary and reasonable for SPECIFIC EVENTS, IMO.  The difference is what about for activities OUTSIDE of events?  Can you NOT hire a consultant?  Seems an overreach to conclude that to me]

All that said, I know for a fact that publications pay a small stipend for beer reviews, Zymurgy and Beer Connoisseur included.  But these payments are rather small and certainly fall into the "reasonable" camp.

FWIW, I'm in no way affiliated with this.  I still stand by my long-standing offer to evaluate anyone's homebrew for free!  Just PM me, and realize that it's pretty expensive to ship to Seattle from the rest of the country.

(Though I do admit in light of these events, MikeW's offer is quite tempting ;-) )

[denny]

Hey brewers! We're about to launch an on-demand homebrew review service where you can get feedback on your homebrew and recipe from professional beer judges. We need a couple willing participants for our final testing. You'll get a written evaluation and competition-like numerical score for half the normal price! Includes a protective beer shipper, pre-paid shipping, and your review. Only two requirements: 1) You're a US resident over the age of 21 and 2) you have one 12 oz bottle of homebrew to send in for review.

If you're interested, go to www.reviewmyhomebrew.com, click the Order Now button in the header, and enter promo code BETATESTER during checkout for 50% off. Promo code will expire after 3 people claim it. Cheers!

Define the term "professional judge".

[erockrph]

Define the term "professional judge".

You pay me to judge your beer.

[mabrungard]

The PE is easy with proper prep. Just study an hour or two EVERY night for about six months and you'll find it simple. I actually finished early and left when I took it and back then half of it was longhand.

Amanda, This is the same approach I took. Mike, I got lucky and had questions that were right up my alley and I finished the afternoon session early too. Scared me, but I passed easily. 8 hours of testing is no fun!

[MDixon]

The problem with the PE is most people believe they do not need to prep and it will just fall out of their head. Working as an engineer and taking an exam are two completely different things. I just checked, the NC PE passing rate is 55.5% so studying is critical for success!

[heyimmatt]

Wow, thanks so much for the comments everyone! Love the feedback!

To put the charging for judging thing to bed, I emailed with Gordon about this a while back. His response:

No conflict at all.  Judges can't charge to do normal judging, but private evaluations are no problem.  We get paid to review beers in Zymurgy.  I've charged breweries to evaluate their products.  Seems like the same idea.  Check the BJCP By-Laws for specifics.  Article IX, Section 4. 

Good luck with the project,
Gordon

[chumley]

Capitalism at its best.  I love it.

I can see using such a service if you have an infection or some off-flavor you need help in identifying, especially if you are new to homebrewing.  But, as someone who finds the whole BJCP concept to be somewhat silly, to pay for a service to help you improve your beer, as opposed to just tweaking your recipe until you are happy with the results, also seems somewhat silly. 

[chinaski]

Capitalism at its best.  I love it.

Indeed.  Let the market for this service have its way.  I don't have the extra $ to pay someone to judge my beers and even if I did, I'd seek out my fellow club members to do it for the love of brewing.  I'd be much more likely to spend the $ on analytical services if I needed them; even at its best, judging is a pretty subjective endeavor.

[mabrungard]

But, as someone who finds the whole BJCP concept to be somewhat silly, to pay for a service to help you improve your beer, as opposed to just tweaking your recipe until you are happy with the results, also seems somewhat silly. 

I don't disagree with your notion that we should be brewing to please our own tastes. However, I've found that many people can be blind to faults in their beer or they just aren't familiar enough to understand they exist. Having an unbiased and knowledgible assessment of your beers can help you on a path where you make beer that someone other than yourself can enjoy! ;-)

[MDixon]

If you love your beer, then press on, but don't believe the hype when others rave about your beer without some outside verification. Far too many people are opening breweries based on opinions of those who have no clue and many will fail unless they get it figured out.

[Iliff Ave]

If you love your beer, then press on, but don't believe the hype when others rave about your beer without some outside verification. Far too many people are opening breweries based on opinions of those who have no clue and many will fail unless they get it figured out.

Something I probably heard here: "Will people still like your beer if they have to pay for it?"