Author Topic: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance  (Read 1495 times)

Offline 2brew559

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American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« on: November 28, 2015, 09:45:12 AM »
Hi everyone. :)

Ok so here's my try at a roasty toasty American Stout
I'm conflicted on yeast choices wlp004 or clean wlp001/wyeast 1056
Mash: 154F @ 1.55qts

82% Golden promise base Malt: sweet, Malty and flavorful with good conversion power

6% Patagonia Black Pearl Malt for the  dark chocolate/ nuttiness  and smoothness to compliment the  strong roasty  sharp flavor's Of the 4% "Black Barley Malt".

8% British Carastan malt, to smooth out the roast and the sharpness of the roasty grains..why didn't I use the darker crystals;  Im just not in sync with the idea of rasin and fruit prune flavor's in my Stout if i use Crystal 60,80,90,120 etc...  I can't imagine tasting rasin and prunes for example in a smooth  toasty french press coffee. (Maybe I'm wrong)...
I'm open to suggestions... Was thinking maybe cara Munich malts in place of the Carastan...??

Is 1lb too much...its at 8% of the bill...I was thinking .5lbs
What do you brewers suggest? I have seen some recipes with no crystal...

Method: All Grain
Style: American Stout   
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)   
Boil Size: 7.52 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.048 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)   
Source: me
Original Gravity: 1.065
Final Gravity: 1.019
ABV (standard): 6.11%
IBU (tinseth): 57.26
SRM (morey): 36.63

BU/GU: mine .88  (style:.88)

Fermentables
Amount   Fermentable                                              Bill %
10.25 lb   United Kingdom - Golden Promise 3L  82%
1 lb   United Kingdom - Carastan (30/37)L         8%
0.5 lb   American - Black Barley   530L           4%
0.75 lb   Patagonia Black Pearl Malt  340L         6%
12.5 lb   Total   
       
Hops
Amount   Variety   Type   AA   Use   Time   IBU
1 oz   Magnum   Pellet   13.7   Boil   60 min.      48.31
1 oz   Cascade   Pellet   7   Boil   10 min            8.95

« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 09:55:45 AM by 2brew559 »
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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 10:59:23 AM »
I think you are off to a great start there. I agree something like Caramel 40 would be what you want to use for something like this so the Carastan should be just as good. I probably wouldn't go above C-60 for the same reasons you mentioned. The higher level crystal malts do bring some different character (like the raisin, prune...dark fruit etc). But it's not that much unless you use higher amounts.

I could be wrong, and it's just personal taste but I might swap the Black Barley and Black Pearl Malt. I haven't used the Pearl Malt, but to be sure you get enough roast character in the flavor and aroma I might swap them around in the same amounts. Is that malt like a Chocolate malt with that lovibond or is more like a de-bittered black malt?

As far as Caramunich, I would probably not go that route. Caramunich to me is quite distinct and while it adds richness it can overpower something more delicate. If you did use it, it would have to be a smaller addition, not a full pound to replace the Carastan.

Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 06:29:19 PM »
I think you are off to a great start there. I agree something like Caramel 40 would be what you want to use for something like this so the Carastan should be just as good. I probably wouldn't go above C-60 for the same reasons you mentioned. The higher level crystal malts do bring some different character (like the raisin, prune...dark fruit etc). But it's not that much unless you use higher amounts.

I could be wrong, and it's just personal taste but I might swap the Black Barley and Black Pearl Malt. I haven't used the Pearl Malt, but to be sure you get enough roast character in the flavor and aroma I might swap them around in the same amounts. Is that malt like a Chocolate malt with that lovibond or is more like a de-bittered black malt?

As far as Caramunich, I would probably not go that route. Caramunich to me is quite distinct and while it adds richness it can overpower something more delicate. If you did use it, it would have to be a smaller addition, not a full pound to replace the Carastan.

Porterhaus,

The description from Patagonia's web site for black pearl malt 340 Lovibond. I've never used the Patagonia Malt ..or the American black Barley 500 lovibond

"Through a specialized process, the husk is completely removed and the grain gently toasted to develop flavors and aromas with less bitterness and astringency.  It features a Low roast taste with mild bitterness with mellow chocolate notes mixed with coffee and nuts. Free from intense acrid flavor, phenolic, bitterness and astringency typical of toasted barley, this is a very unique specialty malt that has huge potential.

Perfect for any dark beers, but especially Stouts, Porters, Black IPA’s, and even Bocks and Oktoberfest Märzen style beers."


I'm planning to make a hot tea from both of these malts and see how they taste then mix them in that ratio 60% to 40%

Then as you suggested porterhaus.. flip the 2 malts around  and use that ratio you suggested.. See what taste I get... :)

In regards to the Crystals I'm so open to your idea's... How would you make it for your self??  As well as the entire Recipe...

What do you think about adding Briess wheat Malt let say 8% which in this recipe is 1lb... And or reducing the Carstan to .5lb  or .75 to account for the added wheat Malt????

Don't worry. I like to learn and I'm not offended :)  suggest or alter it as you would make it for your self ...

Thanks alot for your input by the way! :)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 06:50:00 PM by 2brew559 »
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 06:57:06 PM »
 I think your recipe looks pretty good, but maybe not necessarily American Stout per se. American stout has a high level of roast character (usually from roasted barley and chocolate) and a high level of bitterness (often near or at 1:1 BU:GU) which serves to accent the roasted malts. And domestic malts are often used (hence the name). Not a criticism at all, I think your beer will be good. FWIW here's the recipe for an American Stout I just brewed, as a comparison :

OG 1.073
FG  1.015
IBU 73

76.9%  2 row
6.2% Roasted Barley
6.2% Flaked Oats
4.6% Crystal 60
4.6% Chocolate malt
1.5% Flaked Barley

67.2  IBU Warrior - 60 mins
5.7 IBU (1 oz) Centennial - 5 mins

WY1450 Denny's Favorite

Mash 154F @ 5.6 pH - 60 mins
Jon H.

Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 08:21:28 PM »
I think your recipe looks pretty good, but maybe not necessarily American Stout per se. American stout has a high level of roast character (usually from roasted barley and chocolate) and a high level of bitterness (often near or at 1:1 BU:GU) which serves to accent the roasted malts. And domestic malts are often used (hence the name). Not a criticism at all, I think your beer will be good. FWIW here's the recipe for an American Stout I just brewed, as a comparison :

OG 1.073
FG  1.015
IBU 73

76.9%  2 row
6.2% Roasted Barley
6.2% Flaked Oats
4.6% Crystal 60
4.6% Chocolate malt
1.5% Flaked Barley

67.2  IBU Warrior - 60 mins
5.7 IBU (1 oz) Centennial - 5 mins

WY1450 Denny's Favorite

Mash 154F @ 5.6 pH - 60 mins

Thanks Hoosierbrew... I'm on my way out to gonplay football.. When i come back later I will take a in-depth look at your recipe..and comments.  Thanks. Looks tasty !

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Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 08:54:23 PM »
2Brew, there are many ways to get to certain results. I love recipe formulation, im always playing around and there are so many things to try. I never brewed an American Stout so im limited on any experience there but I have the same thoughts as HoosierBrew. The recipe you posted looks like a fine beer it might just need some tweaks to make it that American stout. Plain 2 row malt would be fine and you can save the golden promise for something else. If you want that intense roast character you need dark malts like Roast Barley, Black Patent and even Chocolate Malt . The Black Pearl Malt has a place but as a huskless grain it might be too mellow of flavor.  Those are my main suggestions at least for the grain bill. I dont think the Wheat would be needed but if you wanted to use it or some Flaked Barley or Oats for added character then you maybe could balance that out with less Crystal malt.

Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 06:02:32 PM »
2Brew, there are many ways to get to certain results. I love recipe formulation, im always playing around and there are so many things to try. I never brewed an American Stout so im limited on any experience there but I have the same thoughts as HoosierBrew. The recipe you posted looks like a fine beer it might just need some tweaks to make it that American stout. Plain 2 row malt would be fine and you can save the golden promise for something else. If you want that intense roast character you need dark malts like Roast Barley, Black Patent and even Chocolate Malt . The Black Pearl Malt has a place but as a huskless grain it might be too mellow of flavor.  Those are my main suggestions at least for the grain bill. I dont think the Wheat would be needed but if you wanted to use it or some Flaked Barley or Oats for added character then you maybe could balance that out with less Crystal malt.

Updated Recipe:

Original Gravity: 1.064 (see: Crystal reduction comment)
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 6.44%
IBU (tinseth): 57.59
SRM (morey): 38.37
Mash temp: 154F @1.55qts

BU/GU:89   I might go to 1:1 per Hoosierbrew
Should I lower my British medium Crystal to .5lbs????
                                                              Bill %
9 lb   Bries American - Pale 2-Row      73.5%
1 lb   Briess American - White Wheat.   8.2%
0.75 lb  Briess American - Black Barley 530L  6.1%
1 lb Baird's UK Carastan (30/37) 8.2%
0.5 lb Briess American - Chocolate   350L 4.1%
12.25 lb   Total   
       
Hops
1 oz   Magnum   Pellet   Boil   60 min   48.59 Ibu
1 oz   Cascade   Pellet.     Boil   10 min   9Ibu

Thanks and the comments and suggestions make sense so I modified accordingly  :) I'm on fence regarding the Carastan amount.. What is the suggestion on this one?

« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 06:06:41 PM by 2brew559 »
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Online denny

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 06:26:17 PM »
A lb. of wheat in a stout?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Online jeffy

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2015, 07:10:59 PM »
No roasted barley in a stout?
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2015, 07:31:41 PM »
A lb. of wheat in a stout?

Ok I'm busted. ..lol I was going to try that amount as experiment..
To make it creamy from the description from briess for wheat malt...maybe i misread it wrong..  Also I thought obsidan Stout by dueschuttes has a substantial amount of wheat?

Well if it's a bad idea I'm oknwith dropping it altogether or keeping it at 5% ??

By the way ..  I recentlyI watched a YouTube of your buddy Drew brewing on the ones... Learned alot from his approach...
I really like his philosophy on the ONE'S. Keeping it simple!
 As well as some of your YouTube shows, Denny...Awesome!!!
Like the way you guys break it down into a "fun hobby" with a mix of science!
 I can't wait to listen to your pod casts! 








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Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2015, 07:34:44 PM »
No roasted barley in a stout?

Mr Jeffy

Briess Black Barley is a roasted Barley Right?? That's what I read on Briesses web site..its 500Lovibond....regular roasted is around  300+Lovibond...

Maybe I need glasses...lol I could have read it wrong...
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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2015, 07:43:51 PM »
No roasted barley in a stout?

Mr Jeffy

Briess Black Barley is a roasted Barley Right?? That's what I read on Briesses web site..its 500Lovibond....regular roasted is around  300+Lovibond...

Maybe I need glasses...lol I could have read it wrong...
No, I think it is I who needs glasses.  For some reason I read "black malt" where you clearly wrote "black barley".  I have always heard it called roasted barley though.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2015, 07:55:45 PM »
No roasted barley in a stout?

Mr Jeffy

Briess Black Barley is a roasted Barley Right?? That's what I read on Briesses web site..its 500Lovibond....regular roasted is around  300+Lovibond...

Maybe I need glasses...lol I could have read it wrong...
No, I think it is I who needs glasses.  For some reason I read "black malt" where you clearly wrote "black barley".  I have always heard it called roasted barley though.
No worries. I was questioning my eye sight..lol
I'm relieved..     

Yea me too I thought it was a black Malt like patent. But according to the web site its a darker Roasted Barley




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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2015, 08:37:45 PM »
A lb. of wheat in a stout?

Ok I'm busted. ..lol I was going to try that amount as experiment..
To make it creamy from the description from briess for wheat malt...maybe i misread it wrong..  Also I thought obsidan Stout by dueschuttes has a substantial amount of wheat?

Well if it's a bad idea I'm oknwith dropping it altogether or keeping it at 5% ??

By the way ..  I recentlyI watched a YouTube of your buddy Drew brewing on the ones... Learned alot from his approach...
I really like his philosophy on the ONE'S. Keeping it simple!
 As well as some of your YouTube shows, Denny...Awesome!!!
Like the way you guys break it down into a "fun hobby" with a mix of science!
 I can't wait to listen to your pod casts!

I guess I just can't figure out why you need it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline 2brew559

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Re: American Stout Recipe 1.0 assistance
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2015, 08:46:38 PM »
A lb. of wheat in a stout?

Ok I'm busted. ..lol I was going to try that amount as experiment..
To make it creamy from the description from briess for wheat malt...maybe i misread it wrong..  Also I thought obsidan Stout by dueschuttes has a substantial amount of wheat?

Well if it's a bad idea I'm oknwith dropping it altogether or keeping it at 5% ??

By the way ..  I recentlyI watched a YouTube of your buddy Drew brewing on the ones... Learned alot from his approach...
I really like his philosophy on the ONE'S. Keeping it simple!
 As well as some of your YouTube shows, Denny...Awesome!!!
Like the way you guys break it down into a "fun hobby" with a mix of science!
 I can't wait to listen to your pod casts!

I guess I just can't figure out why you need it.
Denny,

I see your point....and I'm gonna remove it.. I don't need it..gonna keep it simple and easy
Like in original planned to brew..
I just got Malt excited..lol
 
2 row
Black Barley
Chocolate Malt
British carastan




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