Author Topic: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!  (Read 10578 times)

Offline charles1968

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 536
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2015, 05:44:18 PM »
But it's the message, not the money (if you knew how little it is you'd change your mind!) that's the reason for what I do.  To imply otherwise shows you have no idea of who I am.

I got a copy so you'll get your 3 cents royalty from me. It was a fun read, more entertaining than any of my other brewing books.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4409
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2015, 05:49:01 PM »
I find it amusing that the same people who criticize brewers that make a profit from trying to HELP brewers improve also belong to the 'Wouldn't You Like To Know' club that tells people to go find their own damn info in $200 German texts. I call BS.

To be fair, I think you're tarring techbrau with the rabeb brush.

There's only one poster I've seen who is entirely churlish and acts like they have secrets no one else will ever learn.  And refuses to share anything.

I don't read every post, but I think techbrau and KitB have added constructively to a number of threads.  The other one, not so much.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 21122
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
;)
« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2015, 05:53:23 PM »
But it's the message, not the money (if you knew how little it is you'd change your mind!) that's the reason for what I do.  To imply otherwise shows you have no idea of who I am.

I got a copy so you'll get your 3 cents royalty from me. It was a fun read, more entertaining than any of my other brewing books.

Thanks!  Actually it's 80 cents, so my retirement is secure!  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2015, 05:56:32 PM »
I find it amusing that the same people who criticize brewers that make a profit from trying to HELP brewers improve also belong to the 'Wouldn't You Like To Know' club that tells people to go find their own damn info in $200 German texts. I call BS.

To be fair, I think you're tarring techbrau with the rabeb brush.

There's only one poster I've seen who is entirely churlish and acts like they have secrets no one else will ever learn.  And refuses to share anything.

I don't read every post, but I think techbrau and KitB have added constructively to a number of threads.  The other one, not so much.

You're right, I wasn't being totally fair. It just seems there's been a lot of focus on somebody making a few bucks by trying to help brewers from people who, by and large, want to withhold most or all of their info. I do realize there have been different levels of positive interaction from some.
Jon H.

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4409
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2015, 06:00:15 PM »
I find it amusing that the same people who criticize brewers that make a profit from trying to HELP brewers improve also belong to the 'Wouldn't You Like To Know' club that tells people to go find their own damn info in $200 German texts. I call BS.

To be fair, I think you're tarring techbrau with the rabeb brush.

There's only one poster I've seen who is entirely churlish and acts like they have secrets no one else will ever learn.  And refuses to share anything.

I don't read every post, but I think techbrau and KitB have added constructively to a number of threads.  The other one, not so much.

You're right, I wasn't being totally fair. It just seems there's been a lot of focus on somebody making a few bucks by trying to help brewers from people who, by and large, want to withhold most or all of their info. I do realize there have been different levels of positive interaction from some.

Cool. And to be totally fair across the board, Denny shares pretty much everything here for free.  He's not saying "Don't ask me, go buy the book."

Now, I haven't bought the book so I can't say for sure that he shares everything.  But in my experience over the years, he's been pretty open.
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
  • Pasadena, CA
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2015, 09:43:18 PM »
Yeah, there's a funny thought in the world that if you've published a book, you're making a ton of money. If I calculate out all the money I've made from all of the writing/recording projects and the number of hours spent putting it all together, I'm well under the federal minimum wage for tipped employees. It equates to a mildly compensated hobby with a ton of work for me.

All I know is I like homebrewing and talking about homebrewing. It's fun and generally friendly.

You imply that your methods can make beer as good or better than any other methods, and that anybody who isn't using your methods is wasting their time and effort. Denny doesn't just imply it like you do, he pretty much comes out and says it at every opportunity.

I think this is an uncharitable read on what Denny says. He's sure as hell opinionated and isn't shy about giving his opinion and why he thinks he's right, but read our stuff and listen and you'll hear us reinforce again and again that you should brew how you want. We're just trying to present you with options that we think work best.

You want to see Denny go nanas? Watch him when I tell him about something I'm planning on brewing like the Clam Chowdah.
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline BrewingRover

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 752
  • Brewing in Flossmoor, IL
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2015, 09:49:09 PM »
You want to see Denny go nanas? Watch him when I tell him about something I'm planning on brewing like the Clam Chowdah.

Does that have Fuggles and a triple-decoction?
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

Offline dbeechum

  • Administrator
  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2741
  • Pasadena, CA
    • Experimental Brewing
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2015, 09:56:26 PM »
I do have it in the back of my mind to try and make a Fuggle beer that surprises Denny, but he might revolt worse than he did with the Chowdah or White Stout recipes.
Drew Beechum - Maltosefalcons.com
- Vote in the AHA GC Election! - http://bit.ly/1aV9GVd  -
-----
Burbling:
Gnome is in the Details
*Experimental Brewing - The Book*
Tap:
Peanut Butter Jelly Time
Tupelo Mead
Farmhouse Brett Saison

Offline ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3290
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2015, 11:22:20 PM »
This really long thread has shown how homebrewers come from all kinds of backgrounds...often with the biases that inherently come from same.  We need to be mindful of the possibility, at a minimum.  I think this is much like when I tried to talk to my dad about clothing colors clashing or working well.  As a colorblind person, he appreciated the concept, but try as he might, he couldn't coordinate an outfit without assistance. 

Objectively, subjectively, proven or merely suspected, I think the discussion in this thread was well said and as long as we try to be friendly and not get too upset (or intentionally work to get others upset), the discussion has merit and furthers our collective understandings -  a good thing, I should think.  But in the great scheme of things, we should be mindful that we are limited in many ways and sometimes subject to limitations that we simply cannot personally get over/by/through and others may be able to do so.  If my neighbor doesn't detect diacetyl, his butter bomb Scotty tastes great to him and subjectively it really does; if he wants others to like it, he needs to take further measures to limit the diacetyl.  It can be measured, I suspect, objectively with some scientific device, which will help my neighbor brew better, but without the instrument, he will simply have to rely to some degree on the palates of others, however flawed that might be. 

P.S. I'm a late add dark malt guy, but I acknowledge the fact that I do so without certainty of effect.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2015, 11:24:43 PM »
Really well said.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2015, 11:36:42 PM »
?...late add dark malt guy? What's that got to do with this thread?

Offline mchrispen

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • Accidentalis Brewing Blog
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #131 on: December 05, 2015, 12:13:18 AM »
That reminds me...

Hey Hoosierbrew, you never confirmed... that dark hair of yours - it is from a full mash, vorlauf addition or a cold steep of black malt? :) Don't lie - I think you said you have kids... so has to be some grey showing by now.
Matt Chrispen
Sometime Austin Zealot
Blogging from the garage @ accidentalis.com
>> Bru'n Water Spreadsheet Walkthroughs<<
>> Bru'n Water Subscriber Version 5.3 Spreadsheet Walkthrough <<

Offline brulosopher

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
  • They who drink beer will think beer
    • Brülosophy
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #132 on: December 05, 2015, 12:21:55 AM »
If only I knew how to do the quoting thing as well as others...

I suppose there are instances where things I've said may have come across a way other than I intended. I'm not sure that's avoidable. Not to get to defensive, but I spend a considerable amount of time overtly telling people that my data is not the final word, that other methods are just as good, and to do what they enjoy most. I absolutely appreciate less time consuming processes, especially when it has no noticeable impact on the quality of my beer, but I will never insinuate that people who do it differently are wasting their time.

Because I don't care.

It doesn't bother me or hurt my feelings that people do things differently than me, I actually sort of like it. Makes things interesting.

All the talk about Brülosophy being a business got me. Not just because the whole "making money off of a hobby" argument is extremely banal, but because... well...

I'm not really profiting off of it. Allow me to briefly explain:

We (Brülosophy) are 4 dudes who publish 2 articles per week, 1 xBmt and 1 of something else, nearly all of which involve beer that we made... and paid for. At least half of all the beer we make is given away to participants. Occasionally, a shop will offer to sponsor an article by providing ingredients, I love these people, but 90% of the time we are covering the costs ourselves.

Now, I do generate some revenue off of affiliate links, nearly all of which goes to pay my guys a paltry fee for their contributions, website crap (don't even ask how much I just spent on server migration), and other non-luxury expenses.

The shirts, when I sell enough, are great, in fact it's the only source of revenue that allowed me to save enough to finally cover the aforementioned website changes.

I've amounted exactly $0.62 on ads so far today.

Care to guess how much time is invested in each article?

Brewing: 4-5 hours

Data collection: 2-5 hours usually over a few days

Writing/formatting/editing: 6-12 hours over 1-2 weeks

Responding to emails/comments/forum threads: 15+ hours per week

And what have we to show for it? I wake up at 4AM to drive 1.25 hours to a job I can barely tolerate and have to drive home from 10 hours later.

Call it what you want, but to me Brülosophy isn't a business, it's an almost self-sustaining hobby that I do because I love learning, I love homebrewing, and I love this community. If ever the opportunity arises for me to turn this into something more, you better believe I'll jump on it without hesitation! To those who view this negatively, I can't help but assume it's for reasons other than that which you openly state.

Cheers!

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #133 on: December 05, 2015, 12:27:11 AM »
That reminds me...

Hey Hoosierbrew, you never confirmed... that dark hair of yours - it is from a full mash, vorlauf addition or a cold steep of black malt? :) Don't lie - I think you said you have kids... so has to be some grey showing by now.


Oh there is grey now, Matt. There was grey 3 years ago when that pic was taken. It just didn't show as much in that pic as in others, it was at dusk. I just chose it because it was taken @ Hofbrauhaus. But my full beard now has a s^^tload today, trust me. And a few lbs as well. No cold steep, vorlauf, or mash to hit the analogy.I am a proponent of mashing most dark grains though.   ;)


EDIT-  With my daughter getting near dating age, I'll confirm the grey popping out maybe by the minute.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:36:30 AM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline mchrispen

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • Accidentalis Brewing Blog
Re: Roasted Grains: Full Mash vs. Capped At Vorlauf | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #134 on: December 05, 2015, 01:07:52 AM »
Heh... just had to bring that back up.

Daughter dating soon? This makes me happy I never had kids... not sure how I would handle that. I used to pastor a youth group of 15, 15 year old's - worlds best and most frightening prophylactic. Now seeing my 16 year old nephew once a year is more than enough! Good luck dude.
Matt Chrispen
Sometime Austin Zealot
Blogging from the garage @ accidentalis.com
>> Bru'n Water Spreadsheet Walkthroughs<<
>> Bru'n Water Subscriber Version 5.3 Spreadsheet Walkthrough <<