Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site  (Read 4226 times)

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 09:01:03 am »
I think thats an indication of why I'm suspicious of "clone" recipes. That moniker should mean its going to be very similar. Some times when you look at a clone recipe you can see that it might not make a beer thats even the same style let alone similar to the original

I agree. I don't feel compelled to duplicate something I can buy anyway. I like to get close but make it my own. All good either way, though.

Agreed. Many of my beers are inspired by others, but they're my own recipe. My last beer was an American Porter. The wife twisted my arm to try and replicate 3F's Alpha Klaus. I threw together a recipe that I feel might be close. It might not be close at all, but I guarantee Mader Brew Work's Big Gulp American Porter will be mighty fine!
Frank

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27090
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 09:03:05 am »
I do not know why the recipe creator did not specify the correct yeast strain for his/her Old Rasputin clone when it is available from Wyeast.  Wyeast 1450 Denny's Favorite 50 (a.k.a. BrewTek CL-50) is North Coast's house strain.  Mark Ruedrich acquired the strain from UC Davis.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/north-coast-old-rasputin-clone/

Mark, I've suspected that for years but have never been able to verify it.  How did you find out?
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27090
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2016, 09:05:06 am »
The recipe is copied from a 2007 issue of Zymurgy, when did Wyeast release 1450?


Trying to think. I'm pretty sure 1450 has been around @ Wyeast longer than that. Maybe not.


Edit -  Pretty sure one guy knows.    ;D

Trying to remember....I joined the GC in 2006.  Dave Logsdon was a member and I started talking to him about the yeast.  It would have been at least 2007 when it was released, if not 2008.  I have a Wyeast flyer from when it was originally released as a seasonal, so I'll see if it has a date on it.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

RPIScotty

  • Guest
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2016, 01:38:45 pm »

If it's the zymurgy recipe I brewed it's also te same as an older byo recipe and is nothing at all like old Rasputin.   

More like a strong brown ale. Not enough hops. Not bad but not old Rasputin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is why I do not brew any "clone" recipes from BYO or Zymurgy for that matter.
Some are better than others. When BYO or Zymurgy work with the brewery on the recipe, those are pretty solid. Think the Pliny the Elder and Two Hearted recipes, among others. As for the Two Hearted recipes, most will have a Chico strain. You can grab some of the Bell's yeast from the bottles, and make a much closer beer. I have been doing that, and recently got a good pitch of that at an AHA rally. It made a tasty mild, and the next use will be for an Expediton Stout.

When it is a guess, well not so much.

As to Mark's original post - I found that 1450 was the North Coast Strain a few years back with a little time with Google.

I really enjoyed the Expedition Stout I had the other night Jeff. Very tasty beer. Exactly what I like in a big stout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline narcout

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2217
  • Los Angeles, CA
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2016, 02:49:31 pm »
I never realized the same brewery put out Old Rasputin, Brother Thelonious, Red Seal Ale, Pranqster, and Le Merle. 

I wonder what yeast they use for Brother Thelonious; that is one of my favorite beers.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

S. cerevisiae

  • Guest
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2016, 05:43:09 pm »
Mark, I've suspected that for years but have never been able to verify it.  How did you find out?

I assembled bits and pieces until a clear picture emerged. The first clue was in the BrewTek description for CL-50.

CL-50 California Pub Brewery Ale

For that classic U.S. small brewery flavor. CL-50 produces terrific American red & pale ale styles. While attenuation is normal, this yeast produces a big, soft, well rounded malt flavor that really lets caramel malt flavors shine.

Jeff Mellem told me that the culture came from a brewery in Northern California when I inquired about it (I started purchasing yeast on slant from BrewTek before CL-50 was added to the collection).  Jeff told me that he had acquired the strain from someone who acquired it directly from the brewer.  I pushed him for the source, but he would not budge.  The only amber/red ale that fit that description was Red Seal Ale, but I needed to rule out Mendocino, which I did by plating and brewing with Mendocino's strain.

Later, I read an article where Mark Reudrich stated that the strain came from UC Davis.  Mark had experimented with several UC Davis yeast strains before settling on the strain that became North Coast's house strain.

Throughout the years, I encountered more evidence that pointed to North Coast as the source of CL-50, but what solidified things for me was a post made by a guy who went by the username "hopheadca."  His posting matched what Jeff had disclosed back in 1995 as well as what Mark had disclosed in the article. 

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=67897&st=0&p=847286&#entry847286

"It has been a while since I have spoken /Mark. I first got the yeast from him in 1995. I gave it to Jeff Mellem, who at the time ran a shop in southern CA. He and Maribeth Raines turned into the Brewtek CL-50. According to Mark the strain came from the old yeast bank at UC Davis.

As I said, just give Mark a ring. That's what I've done. He's a good guy. He won't tell you exactly, but will usually give some good pointers. My clone of Red Seal Ale has wone numerous awards."

As one can clearly see, the thread was not about CL-50.  It was about cloning a North Coast beer.

As an aside, I have been attempting to identify the original UC Davis accession number for the strain.  The problem is that the UC Davis culture collection went through a revamping where all of the accession numbers changed.   For example, UCDVEN 854 used to be in the main culture collection (known as the Phaff Collection today) with the accession number FST A47.  There are now two separate culture collections at UC Davis.  I wrote a blog entry about the UC Davis culture collections for anyone who is interested.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 05:50:26 pm by S. cerevisiae »

Offline Hooper

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2016, 08:25:27 pm »
Interesting stuff...I used to buy the heck out of Red Seal...I can understand the trepidation about making clones, however here in Texas there are so many beers that I will never see on the shelf...the only way I can get an idea of what they are like is to find a clone recipe that some folks claim to be true...and Brew My Own...
“Stay with the beer. Beer is continuous blood. A continuous lover.”
—   Charles Bukowski

Offline Hooper

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2016, 05:13:52 pm »
Had to add this here...today a coworker and I stopped in a new bar (The Tavern) in Kingwood Texas...The owner and the bartender were wearing Old Rasputin hats but I didn't think too much of that until they brought this flyer over with a list of North Coast beers on it...I said I knew Red Seal well and the guy from a stool over introduced himself as a N.C. rep and pulled out a cold bottle of Old Rasputin...What a pleasant surprise and I even got a O.R. hat that fits my big head...I had to assure the bar owner that N.C. was legend and he's gonna put Brother Thelonious on tap and stock O.R. in bottles...Got to taste that one even in Texas...
“Stay with the beer. Beer is continuous blood. A continuous lover.”
—   Charles Bukowski

Offline Joe Sr.

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4467
  • Chicago - NORTH SIDE
Re: Old Rasputin Clone Recipe on the AHA site
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2016, 06:17:24 pm »
Nice. The place I could walk to that had Rasputin on tap closed a couple years back. Definitely a loss. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's all in the reflexes. - Jack Burton