Author Topic: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines  (Read 1407 times)

Offline hoprod

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Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« on: December 07, 2015, 06:37:29 PM »
Last year, I took this recipe for a Westy 12 clone, (http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_12_clone_-_040.pdf) gave it a couple tweaks, brewed, and it turned out a wonderful beer, very drinkable due to high attenuation with a wonderful, rich dark fruit character.  I've been debating brewing it again for competition, but the guidelines for 26D - BDSA show the style tops out at 22 SRM.  Both software and my visual impression show the beer I made (and the recipe above) come in around 30-33SRM, pretty far outside the range given in the guidelines.

Outside of the darker color, the beer's profile seems to closely match what the BJCP states a good BDSA should be.

So the question becomes, based on the variables noted above, is a Quadruple style beer, similar to what would be produced by the recipe above, out of style for 26D?

EDIT: Fixed post to say 26D, not 26A as I had originally posted.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 04:11:13 PM by hoprod »

Offline stpug

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2015, 06:44:48 PM »
My understanding that breweries in Belgium don't use "style guidelines" ;)

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.

Edit: Also, all BDSA are Quads but not all Quads are BDSA (think I got that right, or it's vice-versa :D)

Offline fmader

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2015, 06:49:16 PM »
You're brewing a quad, right? 26A is the guidelines for a single. Take a look at 26D Belgian Strong Dark Ale. The beer you cloned is given as a commercial example.
Frank

Offline erockrph

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2015, 06:55:58 PM »
My understanding that breweries in Belgium don't use "style guidelines" ;)

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.

Edit: Also, all BDSA are Quads but not all Quads are BDSA (think I got that right, or it's vice-versa :D)
I thought it was the other way around - Quad is one type of BDSA, but not every BDSA is a Quad.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2015, 07:04:06 PM »
I thought it was the other way around - Quad is one type of BDSA, but not every BDSA is a Quad.

That was my understanding, too.
Jon H.

Offline narvin

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2015, 07:20:52 PM »
The only beer that was historically called a Quadrupel, as far as I know, was from La Trappe in the Netherlands.  Now lots of breweries in the US have started using that word.

Either way, they all fall under "Belgian Dark Strong Ale" in the bjcp.  Does your beer look noticeably darker than a St. Bernardus 12 or Chimay Grand Reserve?  If so, it might get dinged for being out of style.
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Offline kramerog

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2015, 08:54:36 PM »

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.


+1

RPIScotty

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2015, 09:35:37 PM »
I'm always wary of saying that I've hit SRM or IBU values on any beer. There is just not a great way for homebrewers to easily put a value on either.

If it tasted good then enter it. Ultimately flavor should trump all else.

Offline Stevie

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2015, 09:36:48 PM »


Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.


+1
This is how I feel about clarity as well.

Offline chumley

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2015, 11:37:50 PM »
My understanding that breweries in Belgium don't use "style guidelines" ;)

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.

Edit: Also, all BDSA are Quads but not all Quads are BDSA (think I got that right, or it's vice-versa :D)

+2. I think all breweries don't use style guidelines.  Only American homebrewers who enter competitions use style guidelines.  ;)

RPIScotty

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Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2015, 11:45:20 PM »
My understanding that breweries in Belgium don't use "style guidelines" ;)

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.

Edit: Also, all BDSA are Quads but not all Quads are BDSA (think I got that right, or it's vice-versa :D)
I thought it was the other way around - Quad is one type of BDSA, but not every BDSA is a Quad.

I think this is the correct one. All delicious in my book!


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« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 11:56:22 PM by RPIScotty »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2015, 11:47:20 PM »

Brew it the way you want it; submit it; take a point hit for the color.


+1


+2.  It shouldn't be black obviously, but there are some pretty deep brown ones out there. Judges don't drink SRM numbers anyway. If it attenuates well, there's plenty of dark fruit and the alcohol is mellow and not assertive, it'll score well.
Jon H.

Offline santoch

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2015, 04:20:14 AM »
Estimating SRM values becomes much more difficult the darker the beer gets.  Judges tend to give a lot more leeway to the upside once you get above about 17 SRM.  There was an article a few years ago by John Palmer In Brew Your Own https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1686-beer-color-advanced-brewing that demonstrated the deficiencies of the SRM measurement system.  He showed samples of beers with identical measured SRM (via blue laser measurment) that appeared vastly different to the naked eye.  To that end, it would not surprise me that the color difference was ignored in this case.
Even then, it's only a point, as stated earlier, and not much to worry about.

[edited to correct author's name and include url to the article]
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 04:26:30 AM by santoch »
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RPIScotty

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2015, 12:52:53 PM »
The biggest thing to worry about in these big Belgians is the flavor. Color is all over the map on these.


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Offline hoprod

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Re: Quadruple & the BJCP Guidelines
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2015, 04:10:10 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts from everyone.  I'll have to pick up an ABT 12 to compare, it's been a while since I've had one and I can't recall from memory how similar the color is.

FWIW, personally I'm not concerned about the color from a quality standpoint, I love the profile of the beer, and I don't see myself changing the recipe just to arbitrarily fall within the style guidelines.  This would never have been a question if I wasn't thinking about scoresheets  :).  I just found it odd that some of the darker examples fall within 26D but the color range seems to stop lighter, which is where I was interested in some thoughts from the crowd.  This could also be my perception, maybe some aren't as dark as I recall.  As an earlier poster noted, I'll likely enter it anyway and see what the scores say, especially since appearance is only worth 3 points.