Author Topic: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?  (Read 1051 times)

coastsidemike

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Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« on: December 08, 2015, 04:42:31 AM »
I'm going to adjust the way I add hops and am looking for advice on the amount of hops to use.  Curious if anyone who actively does this could share insight.

The background:  depending on a given recipe, I typically target as appropriately 40, 60, or 80 IBUs.   I usually go with a 60 minute addition that's 1/2 to 2/3 my IBU, and then ramp out the remaining additions at 20/10/5/0 minutes to get the remainder.  I've always used whole hops and it's usually fine, except for when I dry hop with something like Centennial and get a grassy off-flavor that more or less kills the beer.  Trying to avoid that.

Things I'd like to try with a typical IPA recipe, say 1.060 OG:
1. use pellets instead of whole hops
2. move the 60 minute addition to a first wort hop addition (should be 150-160 degrees or so and then ramp up)
3. move the late boil additions to a whirlpool stand (30-45 minutes at ~170)
4. and dry hop, say 2 or 3 oz per 5 gallon

I'm trying to maximize the amount of hops added without getting into the grassy off-flavor.  Wondering if I should ramp up the FWH for the IBU's desired and then shift the amount of late-boil hops into the whirlpool stand, or perhaps there's some best-practice someone could share.  Thank you.

I'm planning on trying this with a blend of Apollo, Chinook, and Summit, and then with water and mineral adjustments appropriate for an PA/IPA. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 05:54:07 AM by surfin.mikeg »

Offline denny

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2015, 03:56:58 PM »
1.  OK....pellets or whole really make no difference.  Use whichever is in better condition

2.  IMO, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition.  Some will dosagree with me, but they're wrong.  ;)
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline stpug

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 04:22:39 PM »
2.  IMO, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition.  Some will dosagree with me, but they're wrong.  ;)

I disagree, and Denny's wrong!  :P

FWH is a sub for 60 minute addition in my book.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 04:29:25 PM »
I sometimes use FWH as a sub for 60 min additions, too.  surfin.mikeg - my favorite method for American styles is to add all my target IBUs in the boil for either 60 or FWH, add all the late hops in the whirlpool @ 170-175F for 25-45 mins, then dry hop. It makes some pretty nice hop forward beers.
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Offline denny

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2015, 04:40:06 PM »
2.  IMO, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition.  Some will dosagree with me, but they're wrong.  ;)

I disagree, and Denny's wrong!  :P

FWH is a sub for 60 minute addition in my book.

To me, both the quality and amount of bitterness are different, and so is the flavor.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline dilluh98

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2015, 04:47:07 PM »
I sometimes use FWH as a sub for 60 min additions, too.  surfin.mikeg - my favorite method for American styles is to add all my target IBUs in the boil for either 60 or FWH, add all the late hops in the whirlpool @ 170-175F for 25-45 mins, then dry hop. It makes some pretty nice hop forward beers.

+1 to this general method. For American pale ales I like a clean battering hop added as FWH (Magnum or Warrior) for all the planned IBUs then whirlpool with ~ 0.5 oz per gallon at 170F for about 20 min then dry hop at about 1 oz per gallon for 3 days. West coast IPAs I'll do similar but with an added addition at 0 min along with the whirlpool and dry hopping. With west coast IPAs I generally don't do much counting of IBUs as these are made for my wife who is more of a hop-head than I am.

Offline pete b

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2015, 05:00:23 PM »
2.  IMO, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition.  Some will dosagree with me, but they're wrong.  ;)

I disagree, and Denny's wrong!  :P

FWH is a sub for 60 minute addition in my book.

To me, both the quality and amount of bitterness are different, and so is the flavor.
I think that the difference Denny describes is an argument for the substitution, not against it. You wouldn't make the change if you didn't want the bitterness and flavor different. A better argument against doing it differently would be that it made no difference in bitterness and flavor. Personal preference of course, don't do it if you don't like it.
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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2015, 05:04:12 PM »
I brew a kolsch with .75 oz FWH as the only addition. It edges on Pilsner bitterness to my tongue, but by the numbers it is much higher depending on the hops used. With 12% Nelson and a 90 minute boil it's upwards of 50 ibu calculated. It's such a good beer that I really need to start doing 10 gallon batches.

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2015, 05:04:54 PM »
2.  IMO, FWH is not a sub for a 60 min. addition.  Some will dosagree with me, but they're wrong.  ;)

If FWH is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Offline JT

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2015, 05:15:15 PM »
I don't think my taste buds are sophisticated enough to reliably distinguish the difference between FWH and 60 min, but then I haven't tested it keeping all other variables equal either.  IME though, I get less boil over with FWH pellets and that is reason enough for me to do it.  I'm also in the hopstand camp for pale ales, though I rarely go much over 15 minutes. 

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« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 05:25:04 PM by JT »

coastsidemike

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Re: Advice on FWH/Whirlpool hop additions?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2015, 06:33:45 PM »
Thanks all for the feedback. 

The impetus for this is tasting beers that utilize the 170 degree hop-stand and finding flavors that IMO were outside the ballpark of what any kind of hop could contribute, and that the same principle applies to FWH additions.  I don't know the science, but it's something about hop isomers bonding to proteins at the lower temp in such a way that more (or different) hop aromas are available/perceivable and last longer.

I figured I might as well give it a try, and additionally to taste the beer during dry-hopping to identify when to stop.

Cheers!