Author Topic: Sharing beers at the NHC  (Read 2541 times)

boulderbrewer

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2010, 12:01:11 PM »
Congratulations, that is great accomplishment!  ;D

Offline bluesman

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2010, 12:48:29 PM »
Congratulations, that is great accomplishment!  ;D

Thanks alot!  8)
Ron Price

Offline bonjour

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »
Jeff's Cap was very good and the session beers by the club was a nice change and the ones I tried were very good. My highlight was Fred's 17.4 ABV Imperial barley wine. Thanks to Fred for sharing a bit with me seeing that he had very little and he hardly knew me.

Kai, thank you for sharing your samples it was interesting to taste the same beers with different techniques. It was amazing that we all guessed correctly on each sample. ;)  Oh and that Doppelbock yum!
I'm glad that you appreciated this.

Fred
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline bonjour

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2010, 08:34:44 PM »
Fred and I talked about aging beers and he believes being sloppy and allow some more than usual O2 pick-up during transfer/bottling helps big beers. I think he is onto something with this. I too think that some of the desirable flavors and aromas in big dark beers are staling compounds that come from oxidations.

Kai


Sounds like you guys may be on to something here.

Similiar to the aging of wine, where the oxidation of the wine is the mechanism that allows for the complexity of the wine.
I will point out that this is not the common or accepted belief.
I used to use an auto-siphon which had a very small air leak and my big beers were very good.  I shifted to a SS siphon to fix the air leak because the good brewers that I knew said (rightly so) that my beers would be oxidized and as such degraded.  The "quality" of my big beers dramatically decreased.  I started to add a slight amount of Oxygen (via aeration) back in, not much, very little, and my big beers regained their complexity. 

I absolutely do NOT recommend this with any session beers (note: session beers are under 1.100 OG).

Yes, the 17.4 abv BW was brewed with this process.

Fred
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline pjj2ba

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2010, 08:52:30 PM »
To tell you the truth, I don't think it was in the recipe.  I'm kinda hazy on that night (imagine that!), but IIRC he said it was an older beer.  So, it's either by chance or technique!  Boulder, do you recall?

This is something I think about all the time - Recipe versus process.  It seems to me that many people are focused on the recipe.  To be sure, this plays an important part, but people tend to ignore the process, which I think is equally, if not more important.

By analogy, I'm a tuba player, and a couple of years ago I had an antique tuba that  sometimes I could make it sound good, other times it was a struggle.  I had a lesson with a well known professional, and he made that horn sing.  Same horn, different "procedure".  One could have an award winning recipe and some folks will get a similar result using it, other won't.  These days I'm thinking the process is more important than the recipe, maybe 60/40.

Offline MDixon

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2010, 04:33:18 AM »
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2010, 05:02:55 AM »
To tell you the truth, I don't think it was in the recipe.  I'm kinda hazy on that night (imagine that!), but IIRC he said it was an older beer.  So, it's either by chance or technique!  Boulder, do you recall?
This is something I think about all the time - Recipe versus process.  It seems to me that many people are focused on the recipe.  To be sure, this plays an important part, but people tend to ignore the process, which I think is equally, if not more important.

You will get different results for the same recipe brewed on a different system with different processes.  My opinion is that the most important part is the brewer and the knowledge applied and care he/she takes in the brewing.

This can be backed up with the results of our clubs "Brewola".  We first did the SS Minow Mild Big Brew recipe from a previous Big Brew.  To remove the variability of ingredients from the process, our "Brewgyver" Mike O'Brien sourced ingredients for the whole activity and assembled kits with the help of other club members.  Participating members paid for their kit and then went home and brewed the beer.  Beers were judged in Chris Frey's basement on a Saturday.  Results were all over the place, scores were from the 20s to the 40s.

This is an educational activity for a club.  You can also submit the best beer to the AHA Club Only Competition.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline Beertracker

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2010, 08:21:39 PM »
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.

I also found the presentation on "plastic yeast" very informative. Now it's time for practical application!  ;)

BTW... I looked around after the BJCP members meeting to introduce myself, but alas you were gone. Many thanks for all that you do for our organization! 
CHEERS! Jeff
"A homebrewed beer is truly a superior beer." ~ "Buffalo" Bill Owens - American Brewer

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2010, 08:53:33 AM »
If you want to really get interesting, Stan H had a good talk on the change in ester and phenol production the Trappist and German breweries were finding when changing the geometry and other attributes (open vs closed) of their fermenters.

I personally believe that this has very little relevance to homebrewing since the scale of fermenters we use are so much smaller.
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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2010, 09:33:18 AM »
I personally believe that this has very little relevance to homebrewing since the scale of fermenters we use are so much smaller.

I found a s/s coolship-style pan at a restaraunt auction that will hold 8-10 USG of wort at a depth of only 8-10 inches. I'm planning on adding legs & a racking arm with tri-clover config and using it as a primary open fermentor for my wheats & common-type beers. I'll report back later this fall/winter when the project is finished and I've brewed a batch or three in it.  ??? 
CHEERS! Jeff
"A homebrewed beer is truly a superior beer." ~ "Buffalo" Bill Owens - American Brewer

Jeffrey Swearengin
Fellowship of Oklahoma Ale Makers (FOAM)
Tulsa, OK USA

boulderbrewer

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2010, 12:35:26 PM »
During the talk Stan suggested to those who ferment in buckets to use 2 for fermenting a 5 gallon batch. My guess is to get closer to a one to one ratio (height to width). It was also noted you could get ester production with air movement over your open fermenter. Anyone care to try that?

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2010, 12:57:18 PM »
Anyone care to try that?

I'd try that. But first I have to finish my open fermentation chest. The idea is to put a piece of clear plastic over my fermentation chest and be able to look inside w/o allowing stuff to fall in. I'll then add a fan to the inside to more air and CO2 around. There is a drain hole in the bottom that should allow for the CO2 to drain. Air may come in from the sides.

But I have to wait until I brew something British, a lager may not be the best test vehicle. Weissbier yeast is a ridiculously active climber and I don't want to ferment this open again:



This was WY3068 at 64F. I could not keep up skimming the Kraeusen. Even though there was about 30% headroom in that bucket. This is why I thought the Weissbier fermentation in the Brewing TV episode about open fermentation was tame.

Kai

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2010, 12:58:17 PM »
During the talk Stan suggested to those who ferment in buckets to use 2 for fermenting a 5 gallon batch. My guess is to get closer to a one to one ratio (height to width). It was also noted you could get ester production with air movement over your open fermenter. Anyone care to try that?

IIRC, Kai calculated that the difference in pressure would be like moving your fermenter from the 1st floor to the 2nd floor of your house.  Does anybody worry about that?
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boulderbrewer

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Re: Sharing beers at the NHC
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2010, 01:17:24 PM »
I'm good then, I ferment in the basement. ;)

Great idea about open fermenting in a chest freezer. The only question would be the air quality.