Author Topic: Smoked Dunkelweizen  (Read 1128 times)

Offline PrettyBeard

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Smoked Dunkelweizen
« on: December 11, 2015, 04:03:09 AM »
Trying to convert this to all grain.  It's kinda my goto beer, though it still needs a few weeks, and if I get what I want for X-mas I want it to be my first all grain.

3 lb   Liquid Malt Extract - Wheat   35   3   28.6%
3 lb   Liquid Malt Extract - Munich - (late addition)   35   8   28.6%
1 lb   Dry Malt Extract - Amber - (late addition)   42   10   9.5%
3.5 lb   Oak Smoked Pale Wheat Malt   36   2   33.3%

So I'm thinking something like:

2.5 lb   German - Wheat Malt   37   2   22.7%
1.25 lb   German - Dark Munich   36   10   11.4%
1.25 lb   German - Vienna   37   4   11.4%
1 lb   German - Caramel Wheat   34   46   9.1%
1 lb   German - CaraMunich II   34   46   9.1%
0.25 lb   German - Chocolate Wheat   31   413   2.3%
3.25 lb   Oak Smoked Pale Wheat Malt   37   5   29.5%
0.5 lb   Cherrywood Smoked Malt   37   9   4.5%
11 lb   Total

But it seems overly complicated.  I want to have ~2/3rds Wheat malt, a little more complexity in the smoke, and to keep the BU/OG ratio in the .4-.5 range, and keep it mostly within style guidelines.

Any suggestions?  Otherwise I might go with brewing an all Munich malt Dunkel as my first all grain batch.

Also suggestions on mashing wouldn't be out of place, right now I'm basically planning a cold -> 148 ramp and holding for 60, then ramping to mashout.

Offline majorvices

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2015, 09:15:55 AM »
If it were me I'd go with a traditional dunkelweizen grist and just sub in 25-30% Bamburg Smoked malt for the Barley malt.

Something like
25% Munich
25% Smoked malt (I really like the Bamburg smoked Best Malt)
50% Dark Wheat malt
(While it will add up to more than 100% you probably need a touch of roast malt in there for color, something like midnight wheat would be nice).

That ingredient list is just a guideline, I've never brewed a smoked dunkelweizen before but that's probably close to the way I'd approach it. I brewed a smoked Octoberfest this past fall with about 20-25% smoked malt and it turned out awesome.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2015, 01:10:58 PM »
If it were me I'd go with a traditional dunkelweizen grist and just sub in 25-30% Bamburg Smoked malt for the Barley malt.

Something like
25% Munich
25% Smoked malt (I really like the Bamburg smoked Best Malt)
50% Dark Wheat malt
(While it will add up to more than 100% you probably need a touch of roast malt in there for color, something like midnight wheat would be nice).

That ingredient list is just a guideline, I've never brewed a smoked dunkelweizen before but that's probably close to the way I'd approach it. I brewed a smoked Octoberfest this past fall with about 20-25% smoked malt and it turned out awesome.
That reads like Weyermann smokes that malt. A German Brewer told me there were only 4 places that smoke malt, Weyermann, Spezial, Schlenkerla, and a small one in the countryside that I don't remember.
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline majorvices

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2015, 01:24:30 PM »
Well, I don't know who smokes it but it comes from Best Malz - says so on the bag. I've made a smoked Oktoberfest and a smoked dark saison with sweet orange peel with it. Found it was terrific when added about 20-25% of the grist.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2015, 03:52:18 PM »
I think you could use the oak smoked wheat if you want. It's about as smooth as rauchmalt but rather than that bacony smoke it's more orange. Think about whether you want that in your beer.

Think about how the phenolics of the cherry smoked malt will play against the phenolics in the yeast. I find the cherry smoked malt the most aggressive and most harsh in terms of phenolics.

Personally I think rauchmalt works best in smoked weizen styles but it's your beer and your vision. Maybe that cherry and orange smoke flavor will work with the banana/clove from the yeast.
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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2015, 04:16:56 PM »
I'm certainly not saying don't use the smoked wheat if you have access to it. I've personally never heard of it before. I really like the smoke character from the Best Bamburg Smoked Malt.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2015, 05:55:33 PM »
I'm certainly not saying don't use the smoked wheat if you have access to it. I've personally never heard of it before. I really like the smoke character from the Best Bamburg Smoked Malt.
Weyermann makes the oak smoked wheat for those that brew Grodsizkie/Graetzer.
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Offline Pinski

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2015, 06:05:14 PM »
I have yet to try the Best Malz smoked malt but I really enjoyed the Weyermann Beechwood smoked malt in a smoked Maerzen at about 20% of the grist. As others have noted, I find the cherrywood to be campfire intense and the oak smoke wheat just doesn't sound appealing to me. Smoke is a flavor for me that is best enjoyed at subtle levels.
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Offline PrettyBeard

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Re: Smoked Dunkelweizen
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2015, 07:02:19 PM »
I think you could use the oak smoked wheat if you want. It's about as smooth as rauchmalt but rather than that bacony smoke it's more orange. Think about whether you want that in your beer.

Think about how the phenolics of the cherry smoked malt will play against the phenolics in the yeast. I find the cherry smoked malt the most aggressive and most harsh in terms of phenolics.

Personally I think rauchmalt works best in smoked weizen styles but it's your beer and your vision. Maybe that cherry and orange smoke flavor will work with the banana/clove from the yeast.

I used Rauchmalt (Weyermann) in the first batch I made, but it gave a certain dry, dusty, hay-like sensation.  It works in Rauchbier, but really conflicted with the clove phenols, at least to me.  I used the wheat in my last batch and it accentuated the grainy, breadiness nicely, but seemed a little weak in the smokiness.  I was hoping that something in the 1/4 to 1/2 pound range of cherrywood smoked would be subtle enough to just give a little more depth of character to the smoke.

Maybe:

3 lbs 8.0 oz Munich (BestMälz) (7.6 SRM)  31.1 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Oak-Smoked Pale Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (2.8 SRM)  31.1 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Wheat Dark (Weyermann) (9.1 SRM)  31.1 %
4.0 oz Cherrywood Smoked Malt (Briess) (4.0 SRM)  2.2 %
4.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)  2.2 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM)  2.2 %

1oz. Tettnang @60

Wyeast #3068