[dmtaylor]

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt -
Pale malt -
Munich malt/Vienna malt -
Other Base malts (MO/GP) -
Specialty malt(s) -
Bittering hops -
Aroma hops -
Flavor hops -
Adjuncts -
Sugars -

Great question(s).  I have few answers but I am curious how others will answer.

One favorite malt is Special B.  I love malt and this one takes the cake.  Also love Vienna and Pilsner malt.  I am still playing around trying to find favorite brands for my malts.  I want to play with Gambrinus honey malt some more as well, it's interesting.

I love to use my homegrown hops for bittering.  The flavor and aroma never seems to be too stellar, at least mine growing here in the shade.  But for bittering they are great and reliably in "normal" range for alpha acid.

Love to use Hallertau for bittering, whether homegrown or not.  Believe me, you can taste them after a long boil.

I want to run more experiments using low alpha hops for bittering.  Everyone uses high alpha.  Yawn.  Why not get some flavor out of your boil hops, for those styles where you want subtle hop flavor.  Not every beer needs to have the term "IPA" in its name.

Curious to see what others are doing.

[pete b]

I'll preface by saying that I restrict myself mostly to organic ingredients so that limits my selections on most things but...

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt - Weyermann for crackery, great western or gambrinus for grapey
Pale malt - great western
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Wetermann for dry dark toasty, great western or gambrinus for dark fruity
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - rarely use them but I think Thomas Fawcett is available organically
Specialty malt(s) - I use a lot of munich in place of most crystal malts. I order great western or briess specialty malts for roasted and the occasional crystal/cara. I use Weyermann for rye malt because they are the only one doing that organically. usually great western or gambrinus for wheat malt
Bittering hops - I used to like bravo but I don't see it much anymore. Magnum is good, centennial
Aroma hops -  mix it up a lot here because I just don't go a lot of hop forward beers but I like to include an herbal/spicey hop with some fruity/piney hop
Flavor hops - not a real hop head, don't really have favorites. although sterling is nice and hallertaur mitt is a favorite for german beer
Adjuncts - Raw grains come from the local food co-op bulk bins
Sugars - co-op again, or family for honey, neighbors for maple syrup

Jonathan, I try to get organic or otherwise healthy/sustainable ingredients when cooking and brewing when I think there may be an issue with a conventional version of an ingredient. Is there anything about malt that concerns you? it really hasn't been on my radar that malts are a problem but I'm interested in what's out there for research.

[morticaixavier]

I'll preface by saying that I restrict myself mostly to organic ingredients so that limits my selections on most things but...

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt - Weyermann for crackery, great western or gambrinus for grapey
Pale malt - great western
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Wetermann for dry dark toasty, great western or gambrinus for dark fruity
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - rarely use them but I think Thomas Fawcett is available organically
Specialty malt(s) - I use a lot of munich in place of most crystal malts. I order great western or briess specialty malts for roasted and the occasional crystal/cara. I use Weyermann for rye malt because they are the only one doing that organically. usually great western or gambrinus for wheat malt
Bittering hops - I used to like bravo but I don't see it much anymore. Magnum is good, centennial
Aroma hops -  mix it up a lot here because I just don't go a lot of hop forward beers but I like to include an herbal/spicey hop with some fruity/piney hop
Flavor hops - not a real hop head, don't really have favorites. although sterling is nice and hallertaur mitt is a favorite for german beer
Adjuncts - Raw grains come from the local food co-op bulk bins
Sugars - co-op again, or family for honey, neighbors for maple syrup

Jonathan, I try to get organic or otherwise healthy/sustainable ingredients when cooking and brewing when I think there may be an issue with a conventional version of an ingredient. Is there anything about malt that concerns you? it really hasn't been on my radar that malts are a problem but I'm interested in what's out there for research.

Not in particular beyond a general feeling that any time we can leave oil in the ground it's probably for the best. Barley is a pretty low input crop. Hops can be pretty heavily sprayed though. Other than that it's a voting with my dollar situation I guess. I will choose local over organic often because my impression is that the energy used in transport is greater than any fossil agricultural inputs. I don't want to get off on a political tangent though.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapa

[AmandaK]

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt - Best for ze Germans and Dingemans for my Belgians
Pale malt - Rahr 2-row
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Best Munich II is my favorite for it's depth of flavor, but it's not appropriate in a lot of things
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - I've used a bunch of Crisp, but I'm now loving the TF Maris Otter
Specialty malt(s) - Does Carafa II count?
Bittering hops - Herkules for ze Germans, Warrior for pretty much everything else


I don't have strong opinions on the others.

[pete b]

I'll preface by saying that I restrict myself mostly to organic ingredients so that limits my selections on most things but...

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt - Weyermann for crackery, great western or gambrinus for grapey
Pale malt - great western
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Wetermann for dry dark toasty, great western or gambrinus for dark fruity
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - rarely use them but I think Thomas Fawcett is available organically
Specialty malt(s) - I use a lot of munich in place of most crystal malts. I order great western or briess specialty malts for roasted and the occasional crystal/cara. I use Weyermann for rye malt because they are the only one doing that organically. usually great western or gambrinus for wheat malt
Bittering hops - I used to like bravo but I don't see it much anymore. Magnum is good, centennial
Aroma hops -  mix it up a lot here because I just don't go a lot of hop forward beers but I like to include an herbal/spicey hop with some fruity/piney hop
Flavor hops - not a real hop head, don't really have favorites. although sterling is nice and hallertaur mitt is a favorite for german beer
Adjuncts - Raw grains come from the local food co-op bulk bins
Sugars - co-op again, or family for honey, neighbors for maple syrup

Jonathan, I try to get organic or otherwise healthy/sustainable ingredients when cooking and brewing when I think there may be an issue with a conventional version of an ingredient. Is there anything about malt that concerns you? it really hasn't been on my radar that malts are a problem but I'm interested in what's out there for research.

Not in particular beyond a general feeling that any time we can leave oil in the ground it's probably for the best. Barley is a pretty low input crop. Hops can be pretty heavily sprayed though. Other than that it's a voting with my dollar situation I guess. I will choose local over organic often because my impression is that the energy used in transport is greater than any fossil agricultural inputs. I don't want to get off on a political tangent though.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapa

Its not political.
I'm actually getting 9/10 of my malts from Valley Malt, locally grown and malted and a fair amount of my hops is homegrown. I did think from my own experience growing barley and hops that barley doesn't take much input but hops needs lots of nutrients and has a lot of pests. Any sources for organic or low spray hops?

[morticaixavier]

Its not political.
I'm actually getting 9/10 of my malts from Valley Malt, locally grown and malted and a fair amount of my hops is homegrown. I did think from my own experience growing barley and hops that barley doesn't take much input but hops needs lots of nutrients and has a lot of pests. Any sources for organic or low spray hops?

Seven Bridges Co-Op out of santa cruz sells a decent selection of organic hops from around the world. I'm still looking for a readily available local source but most of the hops grown in VT are snapped up by local breweries pretty quickly. The industry is growing though. Farmers know a good chance as profit when they see one.

[RPIScotty]

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt -
Pale malt -
Munich malt/Vienna malt -
Other Base malts (MO/GP) -
Specialty malt(s) -
Bittering hops -
Aroma hops -
Flavor hops -
Adjuncts -
Sugars -

Great question(s).  I have few answers but I am curious how others will answer.

One favorite malt is Special B.  I love malt and this one takes the cake.  Also love Vienna and Pilsner malt.  I am still playing around trying to find favorite brands for my malts.  I want to play with Gambrinus honey malt some more as well, it's interesting.

I love to use my homegrown hops for bittering.  The flavor and aroma never seems to be too stellar, at least mine growing here in the shade.  But for bittering they are great and reliably in "normal" range for alpha acid.

Love to use Hallertau for bittering, whether homegrown or not.  Believe me, you can taste them after a long boil.

I want to run more experiments using low alpha hops for bittering.  Everyone uses high alpha.  Yawn.  Why not get some flavor out of your boil hops, for those styles where you want subtle hop flavor.  Not every beer needs to have the term "IPA" in its name.

Curious to see what others are doing.

I'm definitely coming around to Special B Dave. I think for some time I was getting stale grain from one of the local shops. My I experienced palette didn't pick it up. My new shop has all the Dingemans line fresh pretty much all the time.

It is going to end up being a staple and I chalk up my disdain for it previously to some poor examples of freshness.

[reverseapachemaster]

The answer to this question is so easily dependent upon what style I am brewing and what I can get reasonably priced at the time. Generally you can't go wrong targeting grain from the maltsters native to the area from which a given style originates. It's not an accident that much of what we consider authentic about native renditions of many styles is found in the particular aspects of the products of their local maltsters.

That said, much of my brewing is sours and saisons where the grain bill is typically very simple. My preference is usually to use whatever German pils malt I can find from local shops but I have used American pils malt without much difference, especially in the sours. Even when brewing darker sours I feel comfortable using American specialty malts (typically Briess is what's available) because age and fermentation is going to roll off a lot of the finer aspects of the various European varieties. Works fine for Russian River so it's good enough for me.

As far as hops, I tend to bitter with whatever hops I have on hand that will give me a clean bitternes for most beers. For flavor hops I tend to keep on hand cascade plus a handful of European varieties.

[charles1968]

Pilsner malt - Weyermann but no preference
Pale malt - Maris Otter, usually Warminster but no preference
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Weyermann but no pref. Think their flavour contribution is overestimated. Pointless at under 25% of grain bill.
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - haven't used many others
Specialty malt(s) - Dingeman's Aromatic. Wow!
Bittering hops - Magnum
Aroma hops - Citra & Mosaic for ales, Hallertau Mittelfruh & Saaz for lager/Belgian. Love Cascade but never really captured it in a bottle.
Flavor hops - see aroma hops
Adjuncts - no favourite. Happy to try anything new or weird - porridge oats, polenta, pudding rice, whatever.
Sugars - home made brewers invert syrup

Crystal malt - usually Caramalt.

[RPIScotty]

Pilsner malt - Weyermann but no preference
Pale malt - Maris Otter, usually Warminster but no preference
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Weyermann but no pref. Think their flavour contribution is overestimated. Pointless at under 25% of grain bill.
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - haven't used many others
Specialty malt(s) - Dingeman's Aromatic. Wow!
Bittering hops - Magnum
Aroma hops - Citra & Mosaic for ales, Hallertau Mittelfruh & Saaz for lager/Belgian. Love Cascade but never really captured it in a bottle.
Flavor hops - see aroma hops
Adjuncts - no favourite. Happy to try anything new or weird - porridge oats, polenta, pudding rice, whatever.
Sugars - home made brewers invert syrup

Crystal malt - usually Caramalt.

I love Dingemans Aromatic. I do respectfully disagree on the Munich flavor contribution though. I like it in Belgian Dubbels and dark strongs.

[erockrph]

Pilsner malt - Weyermann but no preference
Pale malt - Maris Otter, usually Warminster but no preference
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Weyermann but no pref. Think their flavour contribution is overestimated. Pointless at under 25% of grain bill.
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - haven't used many others
Specialty malt(s) - Dingeman's Aromatic. Wow!
Bittering hops - Magnum
Aroma hops - Citra & Mosaic for ales, Hallertau Mittelfruh & Saaz for lager/Belgian. Love Cascade but never really captured it in a bottle.
Flavor hops - see aroma hops
Adjuncts - no favourite. Happy to try anything new or weird - porridge oats, polenta, pudding rice, whatever.
Sugars - home made brewers invert syrup

Crystal malt - usually Caramalt.

I love Dingemans Aromatic. I do respectfully disagree on the Munich flavor contribution though. I like it in Belgian Dubbels and dark strongs.

I don't use Vienna enough to comment there, but I agree with Derek that Munich contributes a noticeable flavor at lower than 25% of the grist. I can pick up on the toastiness at 10-15% of the grist. At 25% you start to hit the point where Munich starts to overpower other ingredients (hops in particular).

[charles1968]

You might be right about darker Munichs, but I'm not convinced light Munich does anything when used as a substitute for crystal. There was an experiment posted on one of the homebrew websites recently where a brewer made the same beer twice - one with 90% Munich + 10% Pilsner and the other with 90% Pilsner and 10% Munich. The two beers were very similar. Might have been different with standard 2-row or a dark Munich.

[klickitat jim]

You might be right about darker Munichs, but I'm not convinced light Munich does anything when used as a substitute for crystal. There was an experiment posted on one of the homebrew websites recently where a brewer made the same beer twice - one with 90% Munich + 10% Pilsner and the other with 90% Pilsner and 10% Munich. The two beers were very similar. Might have been different with standard 2-row or a dark Munich.

I'd be curious to know the particulars. At face value, I wouldn't use what one guy on the Internet said. How many people actually tasted those beers and what were their biases? I've been given the wrong malt before... makes me wonder if his pils malt and munich were actually the same malt. I know for a fact I could immediately tell you which one was 90 pils 10 munich and which was the other way around. Even with Best Malz pils and light munich, which is only about 6L. I could see some having difficulty picking out the difference between 100% pils vs 90/10, but not 90/10 vs 10/90.

As far as no difference when subbing for crystal? In what kind of beer, and what amounts, which crystal? First off, munich isnt trying to be a sub for crystal. However a few of us have all but quit using crystal in exchange for munich or Vienna or the like. But not subbed one for one usually. My pale ale used to be GW 2 row and about 10% C10. It was ok but too... standard home brewy? Now its 70% Simpson GP and 30% Best light munich. I think its far more interesting and complex than it used to be. Some would say that an APA should have crystal to be an authentic APA, and that's cool I suppose.  I'm more concerned with enjoying my beer than trying to maintain authenticity.

Anyway, im not anti-crystal. I also dont get a kick back for every pound of munich sold. But if someone can't differentiate pils from munuch, something is up

[coolman26]

In order to get an idea of what the more experienced members here have concluded, I'd like to know the following from any or all of you:

List your favorite:
-----------------
Pilsner malt - Best is my favorite, but I really like Weyermann Bo Pils
Pale malt - Rahr would love to try Great Western though. 
Munich malt/Vienna malt - Best
Other Base malts (MO/GP) - Never use MO, My IPA base is GP really like GP
Specialty malt(s) - In darker styles I like Brown malt. 
Bittering hops - Warrior, Nugget, Columbus for American punch and Magnum for smoother bittering.
Aroma hops -Amarillo, Citra, Cascade, Simcoe, Ahtanum.  I also like Saaz and Crystal in my lagers
Flavor hops -Mandarina in my Saisons
Adjuncts - Sometimes I use flaked Maize, not much on adjuncts though
Sugars -

[charles1968]

You might be right about darker Munichs, but I'm not convinced light Munich does anything when used as a substitute for crystal. There was an experiment posted on one of the homebrew websites recently where a brewer made the same beer twice - one with 90% Munich + 10% Pilsner and the other with 90% Pilsner and 10% Munich. The two beers were very similar. Might have been different with standard 2-row or a dark Munich.

I'd be curious to know the particulars. At face value, I wouldn't use what one guy on the Internet said. How many people actually tasted those beers and what were their biases? I've been given the wrong malt before... makes me wonder if his pils malt and munich were actually the same malt. I know for a fact I could immediately tell you which one was 90 pils 10 munich and which was the other way around. Even with Best Malz pils and light munich, which is only about 6L. I could see some having difficulty picking out the difference between 100% pils vs 90/10, but not 90/10 vs 10/90.

As far as no difference when subbing for crystal? In what kind of beer, and what amounts, which crystal? First off, munich isnt trying to be a sub for crystal. However a few of us have all but quit using crystal in exchange for munich or Vienna or the like. But not subbed one for one usually. My pale ale used to be GW 2 row and about 10% C10. It was ok but too... standard home brewy? Now its 70% Simpson GP and 30% Best light munich. I think its far more interesting and complex than it used to be. Some would say that an APA should have crystal to be an authentic APA, and that's cool I suppose.  I'm more concerned with enjoying my beer than trying to maintain authenticity.

Anyway, im not anti-crystal. I also dont get a kick back for every pound of munich sold. But if someone can't differentiate pils from munuch, something is up

If I can find the experiment I'll post a link. I found it surprising too, but I was already aware that Vienna contributes very little from experience and light Munich isn't that far from Vienna.

As for complexity, I think you can get that from 100% base malt and the right yeast. Also the stronger a beer is, the more complex it tends to taste. I'm not a fan of fiddly grain bills. Here's a recent example from a UK website. I'm sure it will make fine beer, but nobody is going to have exactly the right ingredients on hand to follow it.

Table beer, 3 %ish
Pale Malt 5 EBC 645 grams 45%
Flaked Barley 0 EBC 100 grams 5.8%
Flaked Maize 0 EBC 200 grams 14.4%
Caramalt 30 EBC 80 grams 4.7%
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 40 grams 2.4%
Lager Malt 2.5 EBC 200 grams 15%
Torrefied Wheat 4 EBC 200 grams 12.6%
Flaked oats (toasted) 100 Grams

Agree that Munich is not a sub for crystal, but it's surprising how many brewers confuse the various meanings of "malty" (sweetness/body/Maillard flavours) and think Munich is bascially the same thing as crystal and adding sweetness @ 5-10% of the grain bill. I do use it to dial up the Maillard flavour but it's nowhere near as powerful as aromatic or melanoidin malt for that.