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Author Topic: formula for preboil wort PH lowering  (Read 4453 times)

Offline beersk

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2015, 03:42:07 pm »
I dont know if anything can be expected per se. There's some theories. Kai has said years ago that pH effects hop utilization much the way temperature and specific gravity does, I think he claims that 5.0 will be smoother? Maybe? Lower pre boil pH is supposed to effect break, so better clarity? Maybe? And the other is that yeast will lower the ph so they can more easily uptake and release... stuff. Manually lowering it ahead of pitching is thought to help them. Again, maybe.
Thanks, Jim. Definitely something to play around with, probably 1mL won't make any noticeable difference. But who knows...
Jesse

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2015, 05:34:34 pm »
I dont know if anything can be expected per se. There's some theories. Kai has said years ago that pH effects hop utilization much the way temperature and specific gravity does, I think he claims that 5.0 will be smoother? Maybe? Lower pre boil pH is supposed to effect break, so better clarity? Maybe? And the other is that yeast will lower the ph so they can more easily uptake and release... stuff. Manually lowering it ahead of pitching is thought to help them. Again, maybe.
Thanks, Jim. Definitely something to play around with, probably 1mL won't make any noticeable difference. But who knows...
Have fun with it. Some of this is edge of the map stuff. Go forth and discover

Offline narcout

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2015, 09:38:19 pm »
Here's a data point - I lowered the pre-boil pH of 7.39 gallons of wort from 5.43 to 5.33 with 1 teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid.

I don't know how much it matters, but the grain bill was:

7.15 lbs. vienna malt
2.65 lbs. munich malt
0.9 lbs chit malt
0.45 lbs. melanoiden malt
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2015, 10:45:47 pm »
Here's a data point - I lowered the pre-boil pH of 7.39 gallons of wort from 5.43 to 5.33 with 1 teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid.

I don't know how much it matters, but the grain bill was:

7.15 lbs. vienna malt
2.65 lbs. munich malt
0.9 lbs chit malt
0.45 lbs. melanoiden malt
Looking at Kai's chart, converting ml to tsp, your 11.15 lb grain bill would need 1.1-1.5 tsp of 10% phosphoric to drop the ph from 5.43 to 5.33. Again, volume of wort doesn't matter so long as you are dealing with the total volume and not just a portion of it.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 10:47:27 pm by klickitat jim »

Offline beersk

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2015, 04:27:06 pm »
Here's a data point - I lowered the pre-boil pH of 7.39 gallons of wort from 5.43 to 5.33 with 1 teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid.

I don't know how much it matters, but the grain bill was:

7.15 lbs. vienna malt
2.65 lbs. munich malt
0.9 lbs chit malt
0.45 lbs. melanoiden malt
Thanks for posting. I have 88% Phosphoric acid. I'm thinking I'd add 1 or 2 mL. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable flying blind. And I suppose, depending on the beer style, you wouldn't need to add as much? Say, for darker worts vs lighter worts?
Jesse

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2015, 04:47:32 pm »
Here's a data point - I lowered the pre-boil pH of 7.39 gallons of wort from 5.43 to 5.33 with 1 teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid.

I don't know how much it matters, but the grain bill was:

7.15 lbs. vienna malt
2.65 lbs. munich malt
0.9 lbs chit malt
0.45 lbs. melanoiden malt
Thanks for posting. I have 88% Phosphoric acid. I'm thinking I'd add 1 or 2 mL. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable flying blind. And I suppose, depending on the beer style, you wouldn't need to add as much? Say, for darker worts vs lighter worts?
88% phosphoric or lactic? Usually 88% is lactic. Phosphoric usually comes in 10% and others percentages, but if its 88% thats pretty high, so use protection and be careful with it. Plus the amounts would have to be recalculated

Offline beersk

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2015, 05:07:21 pm »
Here's a data point - I lowered the pre-boil pH of 7.39 gallons of wort from 5.43 to 5.33 with 1 teaspoon of 10% phosphoric acid.

I don't know how much it matters, but the grain bill was:

7.15 lbs. vienna malt
2.65 lbs. munich malt
0.9 lbs chit malt
0.45 lbs. melanoiden malt
Thanks for posting. I have 88% Phosphoric acid. I'm thinking I'd add 1 or 2 mL. But I'm not sure I'm comfortable flying blind. And I suppose, depending on the beer style, you wouldn't need to add as much? Say, for darker worts vs lighter worts?
88% phosphoric or lactic? Usually 88% is lactic. Phosphoric usually comes in 10% and others percentages, but if its 88% thats pretty high, so use protection and be careful with it. Plus the amounts would have to be recalculated
Whoops, I meant 85% actually. Not much difference there. Phosphoric is either 10 or 85% typically. I'm very careful when using it, but I don't do much for protection...I should probably wear gloves at the very least.
Jesse

Offline brewcrew7

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2015, 05:19:12 am »
Although a pH meter would be best to empirically determine the amount of acid to add, the size of protein break can be used to determine when your in the ballpark. Flocs will become larger when pH is optimal but may also get smaller when outside your target, high or low. CaCl2 or gypsum can be used as well as acid but keep in mind these may also change the character of your beer in other ways. You can make your additions  towards the end of the boil if you want to preserve the utilization of hop bitterness extraction.

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Offline narcout

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Re: formula for preboil wort PH lowering
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2015, 07:41:15 am »
I'm very careful when using it, but I don't do much for protection...I should probably wear gloves at the very least.

You can get a pair of lab goggles on Amazon for under $5. 

I've started wearing them even when I'm just mixing up Iodophor.
Sometimes you just can't get enough - JAMC