Author Topic: Dunkels Weissbier  (Read 791 times)

Ancient Abbey

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Dunkels Weissbier
« on: December 22, 2015, 03:06:05 PM »
Regarding the percentage of wheat in a dunkelweiss, can you use only dark wheat malt, or does the style need some pale wheat as well?

For example, would 60% dark wheat + 40% munich produce a good example, or does it need to 30% dark wheat + 30% pale wheat + 40% munich (or some combination of D:L wheat that totals 60% of the grain bill)? 

Offline The Beerery

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 03:13:52 PM »
The "dark" beers usually a percentage of Weizenmalzschüttung in the form of dark malt (10-15 EBC) is the Gerstenmalzanteil, variously used; sometimes finds only dark caramel malt (5%) to represent the darker color and the Röstaromas use. Also Weizenröstmalz (1%), which represents the final color is allowed.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 03:21:10 PM by The Beerery »
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Offline beersk

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 05:12:48 PM »
I usually do 60/40 Best pale wheat and Best Munich I, 5-10% caramunich III, and a touch of debittered black malt. It's in the 16 or 17 SRM range for a nice deep red, bordering on brown color.
Using that same combination with wheat and Munich II would be nice too. It would allow you to use less caramunich. That grain bill will need at least a step mash, Hochkurz is best. Bitter to 12 IBU and use 3068 in the upper 60's.
This gets me a nice malty and spicy dunkelweiss.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 05:18:51 PM »
Unless you want to eat the efficiency loss, a decoction is most likely desired.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 05:20:38 PM »
Unless you want to eat the efficiency loss, a decoction is most likely desired.
Yeah, it really is. I typically run Hochkurz step mashes for wheat beers but will implement decoctions in the future I believe. I've really only done decoctions for lagers and not wheats. It's probably about time to change that.
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Offline beersk

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 05:29:12 PM »
@The Beerery

What I would be curious about is what volume of water per pound of grist to use if, say, starting with a ferulic acid rest at 104F to decoct up to 145F. I've had lots of trouble in the past getting up to my next temperature step. The main mash loses too much heat and the boiling decoction doesn't bring it up enough even though I pull nearly all the thick part out. I'm wondering if a thicker mash to begin with would help bring it up from that huge step of 104F to 145F. There would be less mash for the thick decoction to contend with for bringing it up to the next rest.

So my point is, starting with too thin of a mash, pulling decoction, then adding back to main mash that's lost heat, doesn't do the trick. And wondering if thicker mash to begin with would do the trick better.

Hope that made sense.
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Offline The Beerery

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 05:53:11 PM »
@The Beerery

What I would be curious about is what volume of water per pound of grist to use if, say, starting with a ferulic acid rest at 104F to decoct up to 145F. I've had lots of trouble in the past getting up to my next temperature step. The main mash loses too much heat and the boiling decoction doesn't bring it up enough even though I pull nearly all the thick part out. I'm wondering if a thicker mash to begin with would help bring it up from that huge step of 104F to 145F. There would be less mash for the thick decoction to contend with for bringing it up to the next rest.

So my point is, starting with too thin of a mash, pulling decoction, then adding back to main mash that's lost heat, doesn't do the trick. And wondering if thicker mash to begin with would do the trick better.

Hope that made sense.

For increased release of ferulic acid protein latches are respected by 20-30 minutes at 45-48C after the maceration at 35C, a "staggered" protein rest is only necessary if the FAN falls below 18% of soluble nitrogen. Otherwise, the protein degradation in order to conserve a constant haze is rather limited . Target in terms of higher levels of esters more glucose formed from maltose, so it is advisable to einzumaischen at 30C. A thick mash of 60% draw and this heat by 1c/min to 50-52C, 62-65C and 72C to boiling temperature, keep 10-20 minutes and first brew at 45C in order for these batches to increase the glucose. After about 20 minutes catch the addition of these "cooking mash" is continued to 62-64C total mash temperature.

That shaves off ~10f that you have to add with that low 104 rest.


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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2015, 06:34:33 PM »
Dunkelweiss or Dunkelweizen?

Dunkelweizen is at least 60%(max ~80% I think) wheat.  I know that I get screamed at for the Special B in my Dunkelweizen but IT TURNS OUT GREAT FOR MEEE! at about 2.5-3% ;)  But that Belgian Special B Malt does not always get appreciated and by no means is a classic ingredient.

63.49% Wheat DME
7.94% Ger Wheat Malt
2.65% Flaked Wheat
2.12% Chocolate Wheat

(I am still in the Mini-Mash/Partial Mash stages of brewing)

76.2% Is my sweet spot for wheat in my version after 2 big batches and 4 mini batches of Dunkelweizen.  Also watch the pH sweet spot is @5.49.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 06:41:51 PM by JJeffers09 »
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Dunkels Weissbier
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 06:38:28 PM »
Unless you want to eat the efficiency loss, a decoction is most likely desired.

+1  and make sure it is a Triple Decoction Mash!!  The mouthfeel would not be spot on without it.
http://byo.com/hops/item/537-decoction-mashing-techniques
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