Author Topic: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)  (Read 970 times)

Offline JohnnyC

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Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« on: December 29, 2015, 06:16:11 PM »
If you like your beer cloudy, move onto the next post :D. If you don't, I need some help. My brother normally has very clear beer, with full rolling boil, whirlfloc, and plate chiller that chills 10 gallons down to 72 in 5 minutes. He does not cold crash or fine with gelatin. The last two batches have been cloudy (one is a recipe he's brewed before). It is not chill haze, as the beer stays cloudy after warming to room temp. The only process change he has made is temperature controlled fermentation. What more info would I need to provide to get some insight on the reasons for the cloudy beer?

Offline heavydeadlifts

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 06:21:34 PM »
Not having enough calcium in brewing water to promote flocculation or contamination with wild yeast that do not floc out?

He should really start cold crashing with gelatin, it is super easy and makes clear beer everytime
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 06:42:48 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.
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Offline JohnnyC

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 06:53:31 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

Offline charlesthrower

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 07:09:38 PM »
I would make sure that the ph of the mash is in the correct range. I shoot for a ph of 5.3 - 5.4. When I had a ph that was too high, I had very cloudy beer. A correct ph will facilitate proper protein precipitation, which may be your problem.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 07:16:22 PM »
What about hops? Is this his first shot at a 100 IBU tripple Ipa uber dry hopped beer?

Offline JohnnyC

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2015, 07:23:51 PM »
What about hops? Is this his first shot at a 100 IBU tripple Ipa uber dry hopped beer?

Good call, but no. 

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2015, 07:46:08 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?
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Offline JohnnyC

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2015, 07:50:02 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29



Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2015, 08:09:37 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29
If you could post the whole recipe, the alkalinity and ph from the water report, and what your friend added to adjust mash/sparge ph,  maybe we could point to the problem more accurately.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2015, 09:01:49 PM »
If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29

part of what others were talking about with water source and composition is that unless he collected all the water, took a sample of THAT water for analysis there is no guarantee that the test and the actual water on brew day match up. If your friend get's his water from a surface source, or shallow subsurface source, a lot of rain or melt water would change the composition significantly, if, for instance, he took a sample mid summer and there hadn't been rain for 5 months and then it rained for a week right before he could have brewed with near distilled water rather than 88 ppm calcium.

You could save a sample somewhere warm for a couple weeks and see if any funk develops that would rule out wild yeast or other contaminant pretty well.
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Offline heavydeadlifts

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 09:11:33 PM »

If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29

part of what others were talking about with water source and composition is that unless he collected all the water, took a sample of THAT water for analysis there is no guarantee that the test and the actual water on brew day match up. If your friend get's his water from a surface source, or shallow subsurface source, a lot of rain or melt water would change the composition significantly, if, for instance, he took a sample mid summer and there hadn't been rain for 5 months and then it rained for a week right before he could have brewed with near distilled water rather than 88 ppm calcium.

You could save a sample somewhere warm for a couple weeks and see if any funk develops that would rule out wild yeast or other contaminant pretty well.

^^^^^ this all the way

I'm betting on calcium deficiency or contamination


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Offline JohnnyC

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2015, 09:28:17 PM »

If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29

part of what others were talking about with water source and composition is that unless he collected all the water, took a sample of THAT water for analysis there is no guarantee that the test and the actual water on brew day match up. If your friend get's his water from a surface source, or shallow subsurface source, a lot of rain or melt water would change the composition significantly, if, for instance, he took a sample mid summer and there hadn't been rain for 5 months and then it rained for a week right before he could have brewed with near distilled water rather than 88 ppm calcium.

You could save a sample somewhere warm for a couple weeks and see if any funk develops that would rule out wild yeast or other contaminant pretty well.

^^^^^ this all the way

I'm betting on calcium deficiency or contamination


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So (for the sake of argument) if the water report is accurate; 88 ppm calcium is deficient?

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2015, 09:39:49 PM »

If there has been a change to the water supply there could be a shortage of calcium causing the yeast to drop out less. If the water supply for the home is surface water and there has been a lot of rain or melted snow flowing into the reservoirs then minerals could be diluted.

Also, if there is a bacterial or wild yeast infection in the beer that is often much more different to clear even with sufficient calcium or fining agents. Hard to rule this out without knowing the sanitation practices or source of yeast.

Calcium level of brewing water is 88 ppm. he is a Type A+++ which carries over to his cleaning regimen. Wyeast American Ale II and US05.

How certain is he of the water composition? made from RO or DI with minerals added back?

Tested water report. Full report
Ca 88
Mg 30
Na 7
Cl 16
SO 29

part of what others were talking about with water source and composition is that unless he collected all the water, took a sample of THAT water for analysis there is no guarantee that the test and the actual water on brew day match up. If your friend get's his water from a surface source, or shallow subsurface source, a lot of rain or melt water would change the composition significantly, if, for instance, he took a sample mid summer and there hadn't been rain for 5 months and then it rained for a week right before he could have brewed with near distilled water rather than 88 ppm calcium.

You could save a sample somewhere warm for a couple weeks and see if any funk develops that would rule out wild yeast or other contaminant pretty well.

^^^^^ this all the way

I'm betting on calcium deficiency or contamination


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So (for the sake of argument) if the water report is accurate; 88 ppm calcium is deficient?
I say no, thats plenty

Offline JohnnyC

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Re: Asking for a friend (cloudy beer)
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2015, 09:53:29 PM »
I'll get the full recipe and any other mineral additions when I can and post them here.