Author Topic: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?  (Read 1785 times)

Offline unclebrazzie

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Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« on: January 07, 2016, 11:05:41 AM »
Hi peepz,

I'm going to brew a double batch of CD/BIPA with a friend at the end of January. The recipe's based on my own approach to brewing something akin to Brew Dog's Libertine Black. I've brewed two of those and they were very much what I wanted them to be, so my reckoning is the basis of the recipe is sound.
However, I kinda want to step up my hoppy beer skils, and impress the friend, so any advice here would be much appreciated.

For 20 liters of 1.079 OG:
4.5 kg Pale (60%)
1.7 kg Munich II (22.7%)
0.7 kg Cara-aroma 2 (9.8%)
0.6 de-husked black (8%)

Mash everything in the mid-range, around 67°C until complete. Mash hopping with about 25% of the aroma hops.
Batch sparge with 90°C water.

Boil for 70' with
25g Amarillo     @ mash
25g Simcoe      @ mash
30g Columbus   @ FWH
25g Amarillo     @T-5'
25g Simcoe       @T-5'
25g Amarillo     @hopstand
25g Simcoe      @hopstand
25g Amarillo     @dryhop - 10 days
25g Simcoe      @dryhop  - 10 days (together with Ama)

Ferment with US-05 or Denny's Favourite, depending which is easier to get/prepare by then.

Brew two successive batches and ferment together in one vessel. Ambient temp until primary complete, then ambient in cool/cold garage for an additional two weeks. Lacking a 40 liter secondary vessel, return to warmer ambient temp for dryhopping.

Bottle with priming sugar (plain pale sucrose) measured to 2.2 volumes.

My recipe on which I based this was a singe hop Simcoe, which took about 4-5 weeks to smoothe out the rough edges of the dank Simcoe. This recipe replaced half the Simcoe with Amarillo, and subbed Columbus for bittering hops (couldn't find Warrior).

Main concerns.
I intend to use locally sourced soft water. If I can get it, I'll post a report, but I'm fairly sure that won't be the case and I'll have to wing it. Advice on water treatement for a CD/BIPA of this ilk would be much appreciated.
Hops schedule: makes sense? I've some 2oz bags of Galaxy, Pekko, Jarrylo, Azzaca and Comet which I intended to use, and some leftover Sorachi Ace too. 8oz of Citra too if memory serves.
Dehusked black: I've used Carafa Special III in the previous incarnations which was good but not dark enough to my liking (the beer was called Liquid Black so it couldn't just be merely dark so I added Sinamar to darken it further). In this case, the colour's less demanding, and in fact a more murky almost-black will do just fine. Just concerned that Dingemans Mroost1400 may taste drastically different from Weyermanns Carafa Spec.III.

Mash hopping and FHW: I am aware of the debate. Suffice to say I'm still trying to make up my mind and that previous experience does not make me disinclined to continue along that path.

Thanks in advance, y'all!
All truth is fiction.
--Don Quichote

Offline goschman

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 02:30:07 PM »
Well first off, almost everyone is going to tell you that the mash hops are a waste. I would move those to dry hop and probably increase the dry hop addition overall. Just my two cents.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 03:32:15 PM »
I have never seen a mash hop, or read about it.  I would take the 75g Amarillo and Simcoe from mash, t-5, hopstand and split 37.5g(each) with a hopstand and late boil for the aroma.
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 03:56:51 PM »
I agree on ditching the mash hops and move them somewhere else in the process. FWH or after the boil.

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Offline BrodyR

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 04:12:22 PM »
When brewing IPAs I like to really lay the hammer on with dry hops to get closer to some of the commercial ones I love. I've had luck with an oz/gallon dry hopping (so like 150grams in your case). So I would second the comment to move the mash hops to dry.

I'd go with a standard IPA water profile. My first priority would be mash ph and adequate calcium. Then I'd try to get S04 and Cl in line. Traditional IPA wisdom suggests high sulfate and low chloride but rumor has it some modern examples (Tired Hands, Hill Farmstead, and I think Firestone Walker) use a more balanced split.

Offline beersk

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 11:31:18 PM »
Agree, ditch the mash hops. First off, don't call it Cascadian Dark Ale, that's just silly and should never be spoken. Second, Cut back on the Munich II to about 10-15% and make the dehusked black malt more like 6%. Target about 28SRM. Black IPA is basically a schwarzbier that is hopped up. It should be malty, but not overly so and 22% Munich II would intensify it too much. The Caraaroma isn't necessary.

Simcoe and Amarillo are excellent choices for Black IPA.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 11:40:14 PM »
Agree, ditch the mash hops. First off, don't call it Cascadian Dark Ale, that's just silly and should never be spoken. Second, Cut back on the Munich II to about 10-15% and make the dehusked black malt more like 6%. Target about 28SRM. Black IPA is basically a schwarzbier that is hopped up. It should be malty, but not overly so and 22% Munich II would intensify it too much. The Caraaroma isn't necessary.

Simcoe and Amarillo are excellent choices for Black IPA.


I agree. Your BIPA is pretty close to mine. I like the hopped up Schwarzbier analogy. Anyway I use .75-1 lb of sugar in mine and plenty of piney hops. I finished my last with Amarillo, Simcoe, and Chinook.
Jon H.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 08:23:39 PM »
I have used Warrior simcoe and Amarillo and really enjoyed it.
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Offline fmader

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2016, 02:46:49 PM »
I think my recipe for my BIPA is 90% two row, 5% C60, 4% carafa III, and 1% chocolate. I think. But as far as hops go. My personal preference is grapefruit isn't that great in a BIPA. Piney/dank/resinous is better. But that's just a personal preference, so I'm not going to suggest swapping out Amarillo. My combo tends to be a combo of simcoe, chinook, Columbus, galaxy and cents. I think my last one had 17.5 ounces of hops which is over the top too.

But the schedule. Like above, ditch that mash addition and drag it out to your hopstand, and save your 5 minute addition for the dry hop. So it would look like this:

FWH 30g Columbus
Flameout 50g of simcoe and 50g of Amarillo
Dry hop 50g of simcoe and 50g of Amarillo.

The mash hop is pretty much a waste of good hop.
Frank

Offline fmader

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 02:47:26 PM »
And it's a black IPA!
Frank

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 03:47:08 PM »
To be a true CDA it must be brewed in the natural habitat of Big Foot, with ingredients from that area. Within 100 miles of DB Coopers jump site works too.

Trivia: name the only two breweries that operate in a location where it is officially a crime to shoot at Big Foot

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 08:05:45 AM »
Alright. Mash hopping gets an overwhelming thumbs-down so maybe I'll cover my stubborn streak with a bit of peer-compliance.

Keeping the malt bill and mash schedule, I'll swap the hopping schedule to

Boil for 70' with

30g Columbus   @ FWH
50g Amarillo     @hopstand
50g Simcoe      @hopstand
50g Amarillo     @dryhop - 10 days
50g Simcoe      @dryhop  - 10 days (together with Ama)

Columbus could still be swapped for Warrior if I can find some in time.

I'll also take care not to call it Cascadian Dark Ale and refer to as a Black IPA.

About the water: all I know about is that it's filtered and soft, and that its a compulsory inclusion in this beer. Anything generic I can do to make sure the hops get their spot in the limelight?

Yeast: any advice there?

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Offline Al Hounos

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 04:11:44 AM »
Columbus is great, no need to track down warrior if you don't have it.

For the water, soft is good as long as you can keep a decent mash ph (5.4-5.5). Try some gypsum CaSO4 for a dry finish. Some say it makes the hops pop as well.

For yeast, I love WY1272/WLP051 in american IPAs. More fruity/herbal estery (interesting) than chico while still being relatively clean and dry.

Also, most people would say a 10 day dry hop is longer than necessary. 3-5 days is more typical. I think an overly long dry hop starts to lose that fresh hop aroma punch. I do 3-4 days personally.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 04:13:56 AM by Al Hounos »

Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 08:32:41 AM »
Right-O.

3-5 days dryhop and into the bottle she goes :)
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Offline fmader

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Re: Cascadian Dark / BIPA: your thoughts on this?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2016, 11:01:13 AM »
I love the ho schedule. Leave the Columbus. It adds an extra level of complexity to IPAs. I've used both WLP 001 and WLP 007 in my black IPAs. Both work well.
Frank