Author Topic: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone  (Read 1171 times)

Offline JJeffers09

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Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« on: January 08, 2016, 09:02:11 PM »
***Copied from extract/partial mash thread

SO looking to try this one out.  It is 8% blonde weizenbock, rich caramel banana clove hefeweizen color/texture with a nice apricots and plum fruit aroma.  Very light bitterness and would guess only 6-8 srm.  My overall impression of this beer is sweet, malty, creamy smooth wheat, and a short lived mellow bitterness before the warm alcohol finish.  Good beer for sure, ready to have as much on hand as I can make.

Equipment is a 10 gal fermenter. 15qt mash tun - cracked my 10 gallon and in a pinch going to what I have on hand.

Looking for tweeks on the recipe I have scraped together.  Trying to do a full conversion and back up my mini-mash with DME.

Est OG - 1.082  Est FG - 1.020 ~8.2% IBU 12.38 SRM 6.88
Starter 1 gal 1 vial WLP300 1/4 tsp nutrient 2lbs Light DME
Grains look like this:

3.5lbs Pale Wheat 1.5L 18.92%
3lbs Munich Light Ger 6L 16.22%
1lbs Crystal 20L 5.41% (seems like too much at a 2nd glance but looking for big caramel richness)
1lbs Flaked Wheat 2L 5.41%

Mash Schedule
target pH 5.2 [is that wrong?]
185F in 1.5qts with 1lbs Flaked Wheat (gelatinization temp for wheat)
110F for 30mins in 12.5qts (beta glucan rest)
122F for 60mins in 12.5qts (protein rest)
30 mins in pro/rest decoc1 150F (saccharification) 10 mins - then boil for 12 mins (decoction1)
60 mins at 150F for saccharification
40 mins in sacc. decoc2 boil for 12 mins
mash out 168F for 10 mins
fly sparge 12.5qts @165F

Boil 60 mins 5.5 gallons Est Preboil ~ 1.110
8lbs Wheat DME - 60
2lbs Extra Light DME - 60
1oz Perle 8.2AA - 50 mins
.25oz Nelson Sauvin 12.2AA - 10 mins
Nutrient - 10 mins
No finnings

probably going to need 3.5 gallons ready to add for 8 gallons batch.

Comments? questions? concerns? any advice/experience is always welcomed and appreciated.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 11:59:27 PM »
***Copied from extract/partial mash thread

SO looking to try this one out.  It is 8% blonde weizenbock, rich caramel banana clove hefeweizen color/texture with a nice apricots and plum fruit aroma.  Very light bitterness and would guess only 6-8 srm.  My overall impression of this beer is sweet, malty, creamy smooth wheat, and a short lived mellow bitterness before the warm alcohol finish.  Good beer for sure, ready to have as much on hand as I can make.

Equipment is a 10 gal fermenter. 15qt mash tun - cracked my 10 gallon and in a pinch going to what I have on hand.

Looking for tweeks on the recipe I have scraped together.  Trying to do a full conversion and back up my mini-mash with DME.

Est OG - 1.082  Est FG - 1.020 ~8.2% IBU 12.38 SRM 6.88
Starter 1 gal 1 vial WLP300 1/4 tsp nutrient 2lbs Light DME
Grains look like this:

3.5lbs Pale Wheat 1.5L 18.92%
3lbs Munich Light Ger 6L 16.22%
1lbs Crystal 20L 5.41% (seems like too much at a 2nd glance but looking for big caramel richness)
1lbs Flaked Wheat 2L 5.41%

Mash Schedule
target pH 5.2 [is that wrong?]
185F in 1.5qts with 1lbs Flaked Wheat (gelatinization temp for wheat)
110F for 30mins in 12.5qts (beta glucan rest)
122F for 60mins in 12.5qts (protein rest)
30 mins in pro/rest decoc1 150F (saccharification) 10 mins - then boil for 12 mins (decoction1)
60 mins at 150F for saccharification
40 mins in sacc. decoc2 boil for 12 mins
mash out 168F for 10 mins
fly sparge 12.5qts @165F

Boil 60 mins 5.5 gallons Est Preboil ~ 1.110
8lbs Wheat DME - 60
2lbs Extra Light DME - 60
1oz Perle 8.2AA - 50 mins
.25oz Nelson Sauvin 12.2AA - 10 mins
Nutrient - 10 mins
No finnings

probably going to need 3.5 gallons ready to add for 8 gallons batch.

Comments? questions? concerns? any advice/experience is always welcomed and appreciated.

I don't think you meant to have 2# DME in a 1 gallon starter.
I would bump your mash pH to 5.4 for this one.
Skip the protein rest as this can damage your head retention.
Your wheat does NOT need to be mixed with 185F water as it is already pre-gelatinized if it is flaked. Just mix these in with the rest of your grains.
You might want to consider bumping the IBU's up to 17-18 to avoid an overly cloying beer that also finishes high in gravity. 

Just some thoughts as you move forward on this one.  Let us know what you decide to do on this one!

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 03:07:32 AM »
So pitch rate calculator says my target pitch rate is 599 billion.

I have 2 vials of yeast 12 days old as of today so 92% viability.  That's 184 billion, 3.78L of 1.085 gives me 479 billion (shaking) that's 32.3 oz of DME for 1.085 gravity which puts me short to target.  And I am not sure that I am looking at this the right way.
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RPIScotty

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 12:59:35 PM »
 1.085 starter wort gravity?


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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 07:22:58 PM »
that's what I was thinking to get up over 450 bill without making 3+ starters...  idk how do most people plan out a starter?  This will be my fist time pitching a starter vs multiple vials to get what I need
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2016, 04:05:24 PM »
So I am thinking about taking the route that Gulbransen quoted.

“Since today’s malts are so highly modified, I prefer to start my mash at 130 to 134 °F (54 to 57 °C) to avoid a protein rest. I then pull a single decoction, boiling it for 10 to 15 minutes, before I return it to the mash and raise the entire mash for a rest at 152 °F (67 °C).”

Dumping the pro rest and the 2nd decoction.  Looking at the beta rest still (Brynildson favors for a “Mashing at 110 °F (43 °C) aids in the hydrolysis of ferulic acid."), and going for the low end of Gulbransens mash. I think I will try to stay at the 152F too for the sacc.

Not sure what hops to use... Perle, Mandarina Bavaria, Hallertau Blanc, Mt Hood, Opal, Saaz, and Willamette have been considerations, and I think I will take your advice and go for higher IBU.
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 09:06:20 PM »
brewed this up today.  Hit 5.3pH didn't bother with it.  preboil gravity hit 1.108.  OG is 1.083.  73% effic.  Got my starter going 2 days ago with 1.083 on the 2# DME in this 1gal... Dumped the top, pitched rough est 1.3L slurry.  I went with Mandarina Bavaria (aroma) and Perle (bitter) with this one.  Shot for 17.5IBU's and had to extend the boil for another 5 mins than expected, so I may reach more bitterness.  Guessing an 8.1% we will see how it finishes up in a few weeks.  Possibly a month.  It smells great, insanely cloudy though, almost milky.
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Offline gman23

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 09:13:32 PM »
brewed this up today.  Hit 5.3pH didn't bother with it.  preboil gravity hit 1.108.  OG is 1.083.  73% effic.  Got my starter going 2 days ago with 1.083 on the 2# DME in this 1gal... Dumped the top, pitched rough est 1.3L slurry.  I went with Mandarina Bavaria (aroma) and Perle (bitter) with this one.  Shot for 17.5IBU's and had to extend the boil for another 5 mins than expected, so I may reach more bitterness.  Guessing an 8.1% we will see how it finishes up in a few weeks.  Possibly a month.  It smells great, insanely cloudy though, almost milky.

How was your preboil gravity more than postboil?
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 10:18:51 PM »
I think he did a concentrated boil and topped up with 3+ gallons of water to get this target volume.
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Offline gman23

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 10:32:19 PM »
I think he did a concentrated boil and topped up with 3+ gallons of water to get this target volume.

Ah...my bad
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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 02:51:33 AM »

So I am thinking about taking the route that Gulbransen quoted.

“Since today’s malts are so highly modified, I prefer to start my mash at 130 to 134 °F (54 to 57 °C) to avoid a protein rest. I then pull a single decoction, boiling it for 10 to 15 minutes, before I return it to the mash and raise the entire mash for a rest at 152 °F (67 °C).”

Dumping the pro rest and the 2nd decoction.  Looking at the beta rest still (Brynildson favors for a “Mashing at 110 °F (43 °C) aids in the hydrolysis of ferulic acid."), and going for the low end of Gulbransens mash. I think I will try to stay at the 152F too for the sacc.

Are you referencing his presentation for the NHC?  130-134F is the protein rest, and he quotes Hieronymous as advocating this rest due to 1) low FAN in wheat, and 2) break down large proteins that would otherwise precipitate and not contribute to foam and mouthfeel. 

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2016, 07:19:33 PM »
http://byo.com/malt/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile

dumped 1/2 the protein rest time and went up to 130F, as he suggests.  Went for 30 mins, don't think the head retention will be a problem. 47% of my grains used in my mini-mash was wheat malt, in reading through Palmers how to brew, Moshers "Mastering Homebrew", and byo for style advice as well as my own exp, my final mash schedule looked like this:

1.5:1 qt:lb
grain temp 66.3F
Original strike 115.6F
110F for 30 mins
185F 1.5qts 1lb flaked wheat
132F for 30 mins
152F for 60 mins; 10 mins into mash single decoction
mash out
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 07:44:56 PM by JJeffers09 »
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Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Help on Ladenburger Blond Weizenbock clone
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2016, 09:01:54 PM »
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139846749@N08/shares/1Y9i81

So this brew came out bigger than I had shot for.  Looking at 8.7% with an almost 81% attenuation which is I think the highest I have gotten out of WLP300. from 1.083-1.016, also I think that could have been from being overpitched.  There is a little bit of almost bad yeast flavors, no one else is picking it up, so it could just be me.  I think it is from being over pitched, but the primary pitch was 24 days ago so it can't be old/dead yeast flavors could it?  I had probably 2 gallons of trub left behind, which is about 1/2 a gallon more than I am used to seeing.

It is an extremely rich caramelly wheat beer.  I am very happy with how pretty this beer is.  Really creamy long lasting head.  The carbonation in my mouth is perfect to cut down the sweetness.  Although the hops are a far cry from the clone, I took a guess and my guess was WRONG but that is going to be the fun of it all.  I am thinking 100% perle next time and see where that gets me.  I will have plenty of good beer for the Superbowl tonight, BTW GO BRONCOS!
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