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Author Topic: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!  (Read 9580 times)

Offline brulosopher

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2016, 05:18:32 pm »

Removing one variable by adding another is certainly something we'll be doing, but I intentionally wanted to establish a simple baseline with this xBmt.

Why would making sparging times equal introduce another variable?

Crap, my bad. I was responding to the comment suggesting equalizing OG by adding water to fly sparge batch. I agree with you!

Ancient Abbey

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 06:16:12 pm »
Did he measure the pH of the batch sparges (how many did he do, 2-3?)?  My theory with batch sparging is that the second sparge will have a significantly higher pH than the first, as the majority of the buffers have been drained out.  The second (and third) will be more impacted by the sparge water alkalinity and pH, resulting in a higher mash pH and subsequently more tannin extraction.  With fly sparging, you are gradually diluting the buffering pool and much less time is spent in the higher pH range.  In theory, the final pH should be the same, once mixed, so you may not detect it with boil kettle pH measurements.   

Also, it looks like a lot more break material was left behind in the batch sparge mash, which could account for some of the differences in the PBG.  If that much break material forms, then the second batch sparge must be significantly hotter than the fly sparge reaches.  This makes sense, as fly sparging is a gradual dilution with hot water, whereas batch sparging occurs nearly instantaneously. 

Hotter temps, combined with potentially higher pH would very likely result in wort quality differences that tasters will detect.  Some may have a preference for it, some against it, depending I suspect on what they are used to in their own homebrew.


Offline charles1968

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2016, 01:25:23 am »
With fly sparging, you are gradually diluting the buffering pool and much less time is spent in the higher pH range.

I don't think that's right. If you think of pH in graph terms, fly sparging causes steady rise to a higher maximum after buffering is overwhelmed, whereas batch sparging causes a rise in steps after buffering is overwhelmed or no rise at all if buffering is maintained. With either technique, the idea is to stop before pH rises into the danger zone.


Also, it looks like a lot more break material was left behind in the batch sparge mash, which could account for some of the differences in the PBG.

That's not hot break material, it's probably just malt flour that's been stirred up by addition of batch sparge water and then settled out on the grain bed. Fly sparging doesn't add as much water in one go so causes less sedimentation.

Ancient Abbey

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 05:38:38 am »


I don't think that's right. If you think of pH in graph terms, fly sparging causes steady rise to a higher maximum after buffering is overwhelmed, whereas batch sparging causes a rise in steps after buffering is overwhelmed or no rise at all if buffering is maintained. With either technique, the idea is to stop before pH rises into the danger zone.

That's not hot break material, it's probably just malt flour that's been stirred up by addition of batch sparge water and then settled out on the grain bed.

Sorry, but neither of these statements are correct.

The Beerery

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 05:53:27 am »


I don't think that's right. If you think of pH in graph terms, fly sparging causes steady rise to a higher maximum after buffering is overwhelmed, whereas batch sparging causes a rise in steps after buffering is overwhelmed or no rise at all if buffering is maintained. With either technique, the idea is to stop before pH rises into the danger zone.

That's not hot break material, it's probably just malt flour that's been stirred up by addition of batch sparge water and then settled out on the grain bed.

Sorry, but neither of these statements are correct.

 8)

RPIScotty

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2016, 06:05:51 am »
These exBEERiment Results! posts just seem to elicit debate as a general rule.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2016, 06:09:35 am »
Why do people argue about which way to rinse grain?

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2016, 06:18:11 am »
Why do people argue about which way to rinse grain?

Yeah.  I've done both. Both make good beer.
Jon H.

RPIScotty

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Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2016, 06:20:32 am »
Why do people argue about which way to rinse grain?

Yeah.  I've done both. Both make good beer.

But do they both make GREAT beer?

(Tongue firmly planted in cheek)


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« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 06:22:06 am by RPIScotty »

Offline charles1968

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2016, 06:28:20 am »


I don't think that's right. If you think of pH in graph terms, fly sparging causes steady rise to a higher maximum after buffering is overwhelmed, whereas batch sparging causes a rise in steps after buffering is overwhelmed or no rise at all if buffering is maintained. With either technique, the idea is to stop before pH rises into the danger zone.

That's not hot break material, it's probably just malt flour that's been stirred up by addition of batch sparge water and then settled out on the grain bed.

Sorry, but neither of these statements are correct.

Hot break forms in the boil, not the mash.

As for pH - you'd need some data to support your theory. Whichever method you use, there's a risk of oversparging and raising pH too high, so it's not so much the method that matters as the way an individual brewer does it.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2016, 06:30:41 am »
Why do people argue about which way to rinse grain?

Or even why to - I'm a big fan of skipping it altogether. It's penny pinching.

The Beerery

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2016, 06:31:30 am »


I don't think that's right. If you think of pH in graph terms, fly sparging causes steady rise to a higher maximum after buffering is overwhelmed, whereas batch sparging causes a rise in steps after buffering is overwhelmed or no rise at all if buffering is maintained. With either technique, the idea is to stop before pH rises into the danger zone.

That's not hot break material, it's probably just malt flour that's been stirred up by addition of batch sparge water and then settled out on the grain bed.

Sorry, but neither of these statements are correct.

Hot break forms in the boil, not the mash.



Not true again. Especially in decoction mashing.

Offline charles1968

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2016, 06:46:31 am »
Not true again. Especially in decoction mashing.

Hot break is by definition the coagulated protein that forms in the boil. Decoction involves boiling so yes you can get hot break in a decoction. Not in a single infusion mash. You might get some denatured protein at 66C, but it isn't called hot break.

Offline coolman26

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2016, 07:27:15 am »
Why do people argue about which way to rinse grain?

No doubt, and it isn't the technique that makes great beer.  It is perfecting the one you use.  I usually do large batches, fly sparging is better for me.  Does it make me want to argue that it is a better technique than batch?  Nodda, my MT is blue though.
Jeff B

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Mash Methods: Fly Sparge vs. Batch Sparge | exBEERiment Results!
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2016, 07:32:49 am »
No doubt, and it isn't the technique that makes great beer.  It is perfecting the one you use.  I usually do large batches, fly sparging is better for me.  Does it make me want to argue that it is a better technique than batch?  Nodda, my MT is blue though.



This ^^
Jon H.