Author Topic: wort makeup and attenuation  (Read 2326 times)

Offline gman23

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wort makeup and attenuation
« on: January 11, 2016, 02:33:48 PM »
Let's assume or pretend that I don't have a fermentation issue. Is there any reason to expect such a large difference in attenuation for the two beers below?

Beer 1:
85% pilsner
15% vienna
Mash at 152F for 60 minutes
1.053 > 1.011
W34/70 - under-pitched - 80% attenuation

Beer 2:
100% red x
mash at 152F for 60 minutes
1.051 > 1.016
W34/70 from beer 1 (calculated using mr malty) - 67.5% attenuation
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 02:39:10 PM »
if your wondering if the malt is the reason-I'd say its not likely. redx didnt cause any issues when ive used.

but as you probably suspect- yeast pitched (health, qty) and fermentation would be where I would look.
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Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
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O'Fest

Offline gman23

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 02:45:00 PM »
if your wondering if the malt is the reason-I'd say its not likely. redx didnt cause any issues when ive used.

but as you probably suspect- yeast pitched (health, qty) and fermentation would be where I would look.

Right. I just thought it was curious that the underpitched beer would attenuate more than the beer that used 1 week old slurry. That must have nothing to do with it.

Could it have something to do with the fact that I repitched the slurry from the underpitched beer? I find it funny that I get better results from doing things incorrectly (underpitching). I guess there are a lot of other factors at play here. Maybe the wort was not oxyegenated well or something else...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:46:36 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 02:50:06 PM »
right, could be any of the variables you mentioned...
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline kramerog

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 03:06:35 PM »
Malt X has a lot less enzymes than pilsener and Vienna so the wort is more dextrinous.  From what I can glean from the internet, it has barely enough enyzmes to convert so about 1/3 of that of pilsenser and Vienna. 

Offline brewinhard

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 03:35:17 PM »
Malt X has a lot less enzymes than pilsener and Vienna so the wort is more dextrinous.  From what I can glean from the internet, it has barely enough enyzmes to convert so about 1/3 of that of pilsenser and Vienna.

Interesting.  So maybe lack of full conversion at 152F?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 03:54:02 PM »
I had no issue with all redx attenuating. mashed 150F and went from 1.055 to 1.010 with wlp090.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Ive made multiple 100% Red X beers and have not had this problem.

Offline The Beerery

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2016, 04:19:47 PM »
You didn't get full conversion. Is it safe to assume you didn't perform a iodine test?

Offline denny

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2016, 04:57:34 PM »
You didn't get full conversion. Is it safe to assume you didn't perform a iodine test?

How can you conclude that he didn't get full conversion  Why couldn't it be something else?
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Offline gman23

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2016, 06:07:28 PM »
Thanks all. Sounds like I either didn't get full conversion which I had not considered or had a fermentation problem.

The sample tasted good so I am ok with it. I added 4 oz of sugar, roused the yeast, and raised the temp a bit in attempt get squeeze out a couple more points...
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 06:16:46 PM by goschman »
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline kramerog

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2016, 09:11:48 PM »
Thanks all. Sounds like I either didn't get full conversion which I had not considered or had a fermentation problem.

The sample tasted good so I am ok with it. I added 4 oz of sugar, roused the yeast, and raised the temp a bit in attempt get squeeze out a couple more points...
You can have full starch conversion, but still have a dextrinous wort.  You can do a fast ferment test to determine if you have a yeast or mash issue.

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Offline gman23

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 03:00:44 PM »
I have not taken a final reading however something occurred to me...

A similar situation occurred recently when repitching K97 slurry into a brown ale. The attenuation was much lower than expected and others here suggested it is likely due depleted oxygen reserves from the dry yeast and that I did not aerate well enough. At least that is what I took from it. Is this possibly the case here? If so, it seems that my aeration method works well in direct pitching scenarios but not when repitching slurry.
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline kramerog

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 02:20:00 PM »
Could be insufficient aeration over 2 pitches that is the problem.

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Offline gman23

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Re: wort makeup and attenuation
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 03:02:12 PM »
There seems to be something wrong with my process (aeration) when repitching dry yeast slurry. I don't do it very often but I seem to have more issues when I do. For me, the savings in money doesn't appear to be worth the headache.
On Tap/Bottled: Hopfenbier, Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager,      

Fermenting: Imperial Porter
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier