Author Topic: mash pH for munich helles?  (Read 1390 times)

Offline brewinhard

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mash pH for munich helles?
« on: January 14, 2016, 05:16:49 PM »
In light of the latest pH ideas regarding dropping it in kettle vs in the mash, what suggestions does everyone have for a classic munich helles mash pH?  I have seen some shooting for a 5.4-5.5 while others shoot directly for a 5.2.  Any thoughts fellow helles brewers?

Offline Kit B

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 05:24:52 PM »
I would point you toward this graph.

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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 05:59:28 PM »
Things I consider are
Is my ph in range to get conversion?
Is my ph so high I might extract tannins?
Am I adding enough lactic for it to be detected in the flavor?

Boil ph, so I've read, plays into break, hop extraction and quality. But I think that if I've not seen a problem there, I'm not going to be a hypochondriac about it.

I feel ph is most important in the mash tun and then in the glass. So I can hit 5.5 in the mash tun with minimal acid. Then I can test final ph by meter and taste, and decide what to do about it then.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 06:04:24 PM »
Things I consider are
Is my ph in range to get conversion?
Is my ph so high I might extract tannins?
Am I adding enough lactic for it to be detected in the flavor?

Boil ph, so I've read, plays into break, hop extraction and quality. But I think that if I've not seen a problem there, I'm not going to be a hypochondriac about it.

I feel ph is most important in the mash tun and then in the glass. So I can hit 5.5 in the mash tun with minimal acid. Then I can test final ph by meter and taste, and decide what to do about it then.

Thanks Jim for your insight in words.  I appreciate it and do others with the same questions. I hear what you are saying especially with regards to minimizing acid additions that might be noticeable in the glass.

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Brewinhard

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 06:10:40 PM »
On that note, one test is how much lactic before YOU taste it. But as I found, others might be able to detection even lower amounts. Kai has some numbers, can't think what they are right now, but good guidance if you are brewing for super tasters.

Offline Kit B

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 06:11:25 PM »
If you are brewing a single-infusion helles with a typical, straight-forward malt bill, a pH of 5.2 will likely give you a bland, lifeless beer.

The less bottled acid you need to use, the better.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 06:26:50 PM »
Also consider phosphoric in these type beers that have such translucent flavors. Lactic shines through pretty easy, where a faint hint of sulfur (phosphoric) might be more fitting, if needed

My next Helles will have a limit of 3ml lactic (6 gallon batches)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 06:31:23 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline atodd

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 06:37:02 PM »
The helles I mashed at 5.5 then added lactic in the kettle to do it to 5.2.  For the reasons listed above.

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Offline beersk

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 07:44:28 PM »
I shoot for 5.4 for pretty much every beer, sometimes higher for darker beers. My recent bland/lifeless Munich Helles could've been caused from too low of pH because it was all Best Malz and I targeted 5.3 I think. Very well could've been 5.1 or lower for all I know. Need to get a pH meter!
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Offline erockrph

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 04:58:29 AM »
A thought that I've started kicking around is how much carbonic acid contributes to the pH/acidity balance in the finished beer. For example, would you want a different acid adjustment in a Helles which is softer and has less carbonation than a German Pils? In other words, does the carbonation level make enough of a difference in the acidity of the finished beer where it is worthwhile to plan your acid additions around it?

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Offline narvin

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 08:51:43 AM »
Here's a recipe that applies the kettle addition pH adjustment.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Edel_Hell
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: mash pH for munich helles?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 01:49:38 PM »
Here's a recipe that applies the kettle addition pH adjustment.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Edel_Hell

Narvin-

Great link...pretty close to the recipe I was planning on using, surprisingly. Good to have a mineral estimation as well which I will fairly closely follow.  Looks like he only dropped the pH to 5.35 or so in the kettle, which is not that low.
I will shoot for a 5.4 in the mash and probably let it ride.  I can't imagine that much of a difference of hop tannins being extracted between 5.35 in the kettle and 5.4, but only trial and error will tell.