Author Topic: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA  (Read 1150 times)

Offline rodwha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« on: January 22, 2016, 11:36:29 PM »
When I've brewed an IPA to be 70 IBUs it usually seems like a pale ale to me. So what I've done is reduce my bittering hops to 1/2 oz with 2-2.5 oz for flavoring, aroma, whirlpool, and dry hop and shoot for 100 IBUs. This gets me the flavor I'm looking for in the commercial types generally listed as 55-70 IBUs. Brewtoad doesn't calculate any IBUs from a whirlpool.

Obviously I'm not doing something right...

I've considered reducing the bittering addition further to increase the flavor and aroma additions. What else should I consider?


Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 11:41:08 PM »
You don't get any IBUs from whirlpool or dry hopping. You should target all of your IBUs in your buttering addition. All of your other hops are for flavor and aroma. As far as whirlpool and dry hop goes, try using an ounce per gallon for both whirlpool and dry hopping.
Frank

Offline duboman

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1576
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2016, 11:45:41 PM »
Yp, it seems like what you are looking for is the over the top hop aroma and flavor typical of most american style pales and ipas which come from the late additions and dry hopping. The bitterness would come from the early boil additions between 60 and 30 minute additions.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

Peace....Love......Beer......

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the craft of beer since 2010

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2016, 11:49:06 PM »
I take a different approach. I add all my target IBUs in the boil @ 60 mins. Then I take all the late (20-0min) additions and add them instead in the whirlpool @ 175-170F for 20-40 mins, then dry hop as usual. IMO you get a lot better, more intense flavor and aroma, while still hitting your target IBU.
Jon H.

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3197
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 11:52:28 PM »
I take a different approach. I add all my target IBUs in the boil @ 60 mins. Then I take all the late (20-0min) additions and add them instead in the whirlpool @ 175-170F for 20-40 mins, then dry hop as usual. IMO you get a lot better, more intense flavor and aroma, while still hitting your target IBU.

Does this include ALL 20-0 minute hop additions added at 175F (or so)?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 11:55:14 PM »
I take a different approach. I add all my target IBUs in the boil @ 60 mins. Then I take all the late (20-0min) additions and add them instead in the whirlpool @ 175-170F for 20-40 mins, then dry hop as usual. IMO you get a lot better, more intense flavor and aroma, while still hitting your target IBU.

Does this include ALL 20-0 minute hop additions added at 175F (or so)?


Yep.  I just like it better. I calculate what I would've added and into the whirlpool. I should add, it's only on American styles. I wouldn't do that on a lager - I like to boil the noble hops.
Jon H.

Online erockrph

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6119
  • Chepachet, RI
    • View Profile
    • The Hop WHisperer
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 01:24:38 AM »
Whirlpool hops are definitely where the best bang for the buck is on flavor. For non-IPA's, I follow Jon's method - target all my IBU's from a 60-minute addition, then whirlpool at 170F for flavor and some aroma. This lets you treat bittering and flavor/aroma additions separately without worrying about how many IBU's you might be getting from your late hops.

For IPA's, the actual IBU's don't really matter. The perception of bitterness maxes out in the 60-80 IBU range, and no matter what the calculators are telling you, you won't get much more than 100 measured IBU's in a beer due to solubility, as well as how much the yeast pulls out of solution. In other words, there's no reason to worry about overshooting your IBU's because there's not going to be a noticeable difference between a 70 IBU beer and one that calculates to 500 IBU. I sent an IPA in that calculated to 480 IBU and it came back at 98 IBU measured from the lab.

So, for IPA's, I start my whirlpool right at flameout and don't start to chill for 60-90 minutes. I'll get more than enough IBU's at that temp, and I do think I am getting more flavor out of the long, hot whirlpool than I do at 170F. But the 4oz/gallon hopping rate probably has something to do with that as well  ;D
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline Frankenbrew

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 646
  • South Shore Brew Club, SE Massachusetts
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2016, 01:36:12 AM »
I agree with all of the above.

I have had American IPAs with only late additions, and I don't care what the calculated IBUs are, they still taste/feel like something is missing. So, I feel like you need a solid boiling addition to give the beer a backbone of bitterness. Once you do that, you can go as crazy as you like with late additions to add flavor and aroma--as long as you have that backbone of bitterness, which you can only get from a boiling addition of at least 60 minutes.

Just my .02.
Frank C.

And thereof comes the proverb: 'Blessing of your
heart, you brew good ale.'

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2016, 02:18:46 AM »
I agree with all of the above.

I have had American IPAs with only late additions, and I don't care what the calculated IBUs are, they still taste/feel like something is missing. So, I feel like you need a solid boiling addition to give the beer a backbone of bitterness. Once you do that, you can go as crazy as you like with late additions to add flavor and aroma--as long as you have that backbone of bitterness, which you can only get from a boiling addition of at least 60 minutes.

Just my .02.

I agree with the theory of backbone. And in my opinion, it's done with Columbus in IPAs. Unless I'm trying new hops, I use something cleaner. Columbus just adds an extra layer of complexity that I love.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2016, 02:25:17 AM »
I'm with you guys. 70+ IBU of Columbus or Chinook (sometimes Warrior) @ 60, then whirlpool and dry to your heart's content to get that backbone.
Jon H.

Offline heavydeadlifts

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2016, 03:22:02 AM »
I'm with the camp who gets all the actual bitterness in IBU they want to target from the 60min addition, I then love to whirlpool at flameout for a good 20-30 min without any cooling whatsoever
Batch Sparging Bottle Dreggggg Harvesting Son-ova Biznatch Raging Against the Machine

https://itun.es/us/PN5dq?i=269457903

Offline rodwha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2016, 03:52:22 AM »
I agree with all of the above.

I have had American IPAs with only late additions, and I don't care what the calculated IBUs are, they still taste/feel like something is missing. So, I feel like you need a solid boiling addition to give the beer a backbone of bitterness. Once you do that, you can go as crazy as you like with late additions to add flavor and aroma--as long as you have that backbone of bitterness, which you can only get from a boiling addition of at least 60 minutes.

Just my .02.

I totally agree with you on that as I tried a 30 min bittering addition in place of my typical 70 min and it seemed to lack the necessary bitterness. It was just off.

Offline rodwha

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2016, 04:00:15 AM »
I've been told by one who likely knows that a whirlpool gives nearly all of the flavor but about 1/3 of the IBUs of a typical hop addition (flavor). It seems this isnt in stone, and Brewtoad gives none and I don't count on them. But then there are things that I see that have been off.

But then the IBUs just aren't what I count for bitterness. Using 70 IBUs worth of nothing but a 15 min addition will not come across as bitter as one with nothing but 70 IBUs of nothing but 60 minutes worth of hops.

Offline norcaljp

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • I prefer to drink my bread, thank you
    • View Profile
    • The Brewins
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2016, 05:06:37 AM »
Agree with much above. I use about 6oz combined at flameout in my DIPA recipe for  5gallong batch. It really gives the beer that strong hop flavor I prefer in that style.
Joel Prater

I prefer to drink my bread, thank you

Offline santoch

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 879
  • North Bend, WA
    • View Profile
    • WAHA
Re: Getting The Hoppy Into The IPA
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2016, 03:43:11 PM »
I completely agree with the "backbone" concept when homebrewing.  I use that premise whenever adjusting hop additions for actual %AA that I buy compared to the levels used by the recipe.

However, I disagree that whirlpool hops add 0 IBUs, though.  I know some pro brewers that have brewed IPAs that are only hopped in the whirlpool, and they are just as bitter as any 'normal' IPA I've tasted, with no need for the "backbone".

I think that the difference is that these guys are whirlpooling at very high temp for an extended period (20-30 mins?), so there obviously must still be isomerization happening in the kettle.  My guess is that the large volume maintains a high enough temp, and the swirling action is similar enough to a rolling boil that the wort stays in the "isomerization is possible" zone throughout the whirlpool.

I guess the difference is our homebrew-sized batches have much more surface area per unit volume, so the temp drops much quicker, and isomerization halts sooner, so while its still not really a 0 IBU increase, its not a major amount so it doesn't register that much.

Like I said, its just a guess based on my non-scientific observations over the years.
Mt. Si Brewing Society
Washington Homebrewer's Association (WAHA)
BJCP GM2/Mead Judge