Author Topic: Imperial Stout - Help!  (Read 1061 times)

Offline Attik

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Imperial Stout - Help!
« on: January 24, 2016, 06:57:51 PM »
We are planning on brewing an all grain imperial stout. I have attached the recipe and would really appreciate some feedback. Not sure about the quantities of malt used but from the research I have undertaken is seems to be quite reasonable.

Furthermore, I have used the Bru'n software to develop the water profile for this beer. I have chosen the option of Black Balanced to achieve the following parameters

Ca: 60
Mg: 10
Na: 20
SO4: 47
Cl: 38
HCO3: 160

My starting water profile is:

Ca: 48
Mg: 14
Na: 12
SO4: 36
Cl: 37
HCO3: 158

To this water we added 0.04 grams/L gypsum, 0.02 grams/L of NaCl. The total amount of water used is 70 litres - 50 litres to mash and 20 litres to sparge:

Ca: 57
Mg: 14
Na: 20
SO4: 58
Cl: 39
HCO3: 158

It is quite close to the one specified by the water software.

Adding the malts we get a mash pH of 3.4 which is extremely low. We are not sure where we have gone wrong. Could it be because of the malts used? As you can see the water profile is low on alkalinity however increasing it would imply deviating from what the Bru'n software recomends.

Any and all help would be seriously appreciated. Thanks!

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 40,00 l
Boil Size: 50,64 l
Boil Time: 90 min
End of Boil Vol: 42,64 l
Final Bottling Vol: 40,00 l
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 18 Jan 2016

Efficiency: 72,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 73,8 %


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
80,00 l Agua Pinillo Water 1 -
15,40 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5,9 EBC) Grain 2 86,7 %
0,50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (150,0 EBC) Grain 3 2,8 %
0,50 kg Chocolate Malt (886,5 EBC) Grain 4 2,8 %
0,44 kg Biscuit Malt (45,3 EBC) Grain 5 2,5 %
0,44 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3,9 EBC) Grain 6 2,5 %
0,29 kg Roasted Barley (1250,0 EBC) Grain 7 1,7 %
0,20 kg Black Barley (Stout) (985,0 EBC) Grain 8 1,1 %
92,60 g Target [11,00 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 9 47,8 IBUs
46,30 g Admiral [14,75 %] - Boil 30,0 min Hop 10 22,8 IBUs
4,0 pkg British Ale Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M07) Yeast 11 -
Est Original Gravity: 1,099 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1,025 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9,8 %
Bitterness: 70,6 IBUs
Est Color: 79,9 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1,046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1,010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4,7 %
Calories: 427,1 kcal/l

Mash Name: Infusión simple + Mashout
Sparge Water: 6,13 l
Sparge Temperature: 98,0 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 17,78 kg
Grain Temperature: 20,0 C
Tun Temperature: 20,0 C
Mash PH: 5,20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Infusion simple Add 37,03 l of water at 75,7 C 66,0 C 80 min
Moshout Add 29,63 l of water at 96,2 C 78,0 C 10 min
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 07:05:52 PM by Attik »

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2016, 07:28:58 PM »
You are going to need a lot more roasted barley. Should be around 10% of your grist. There's no need for the cara pils. You should remove it.

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 11:07:31 PM »
I would also cut the carapils and black malt. Up your chocolate and roasted barley.

That pH isn't going to work for you. I add baking soda to my water to raise the mash pH to about 5.6 for my dark beers. I certainly would recommend mashing higher than 5.2. As far as the low pH in your Bru'n water... Did you adjust the water amounts? I've forgotten to do that.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 11:27:07 PM »
I would also cut the carapils and black malt. Up your chocolate and roasted barley.

That pH isn't going to work for you. I add baking soda to my water to raise the mash pH to about 5.6 for my dark beers. I certainly would recommend mashing higher than 5.2. As far as the low pH in your Bru'n water... Did you adjust the water amounts? I've forgotten to do that.



+1.  More roasted barley and chocolate + 5.6 mash pH for sure.
Jon H.

BurghBeezer

  • Guest
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 03:00:49 AM »
The mash PH in Bru'n Water says 3.4 estimate?  Putting in the information you provided the only way I got close to that is if I called the 15.4kg Marris Otter a 'Roast Malt' instead of 'Base Malt.'  If I select it as a 'Base Malt' it estimates PH 5.6, if select 'Roast Malt' it goes to PH 3.5.

Offline Attik

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2016, 08:41:45 AM »
Yes! Thats just what I did. Silly mistake regarding the water. :'(

About the malts, I'll take off carapils and add more roasted barley and maybe more chocolate, al though I have a feeling it'll come out very sweet and I would prefer it a bit dry. Maybe add up a bit of black malt or will it be too high? Does 70ibu make sense?
First time trying a stout... :-\

Thanks in advance!!

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 10:19:52 AM »
Yes! Thats just what I did. Silly mistake regarding the water. :'(

About the malts, I'll take off carapils and add more roasted barley and maybe more chocolate, al though I have a feeling it'll come out very sweet and I would prefer it a bit dry. Maybe add up a bit of black malt or will it be too high? Does 70ibu make sense?
First time trying a stout... :-\

Thanks in advance!!

Glad we got the water figured out. If you're worried about it being too sweet, I'd drop the biscuit malt too. But definetely kick the roast malts up a notch. Mash low at about 148 degrees for 90 minutes. 70 IBUs is fine.
Frank

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 04:00:32 PM »
try to hit 5.4 pH for a little more dry stout, like an Irish Stout.  If you are looking for that full rich, smooth roasted character having harder water and higher pH in the 5.6 range will get you there.  I like a touch of midnight wheat in my Imp Stout for head retention and some body.  But I would not use American Roasted Barley, try to find UK.

IBU I like the low 60's
But I would use the Bitter Hops Admiral for the long boil and the Aroma hops like fuggle or target for your late hop addition.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline reverseapachemaster

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3207
    • View Profile
    • Brain Sparging on Brewing
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 04:40:20 PM »
I agree on ditching the carapils and adding considerably more roasted barley and chocolate malt. I like a little black malt in my stouts but if you're adding a lot more chocolate malt then I'd probably ditch the black malt. Biscuit malt is interesting in stouts. It works but it definitely stands out as a biscuit flavor even in low amounts. Probably not something to add unless you really want that flavor.
Heck yeah I blog about homebrewing: Brain Sparging on Brewing

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 01:39:14 AM »
try to hit 5.4 pH for a little more dry stout, like an Irish Stout.  If you are looking for that full rich, smooth roasted character having harder water and higher pH in the 5.6 range will get you there.  I like a touch of midnight wheat in my Imp Stout for head retention and some body.  But I would not use American Roasted Barley, try to find UK.

IBU I like the low 60's
But I would use the Bitter Hops Admiral for the long boil and the Aroma hops like fuggle or target for your late hop addition.

There's no way the Midnight wheat contributes to any head retention, though I do agree it has a nice flavor.

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 02:56:05 PM »
It throws some protein in the mix doesn't it?  I am not sure the roast completely denatures the wheat.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)

Offline snowtiger87

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 443
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2016, 06:18:39 AM »
Replace the Biscuit Malt with Special B. You will be glad you did. I agree with the others on no Dextrine and upping the roasted barley.
Brewing since 1989 - BJCP National Rank
Member of KROC and Foam on the Range

Fermenting: Double IPA
Conditioning: Saison du Potiron
On tap: Cider, Cream Ale, Bock, Rye Dunkel Doppelbock, Celebration Clone, Imperial Stout

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9685
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2016, 11:16:09 AM »
It throws some protein in the mix doesn't it?  I am not sure the roast completely denatures the wheat.

Not enough to matter at the low percentage you would be using it.

Offline JJeffers09

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1126
    • View Profile
Re: Imperial Stout - Help!
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2016, 02:29:37 PM »
good point.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

AHA Member
Indiana Brewers Union (IBU)