Author Topic: All Grain Starter Wort fail  (Read 1922 times)

Offline yso191

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All Grain Starter Wort fail
« on: January 31, 2016, 04:25:37 AM »
Well, not exactly a fail, but...

I got a pressure canner for making starter wort.  I can't see spending $10 on DME when I can spend $2 on malt, so I made a quick recipe in Beersmith.  I put the info into Brun' Water to get the pH right and also added a pinch of yeast nutrient.  I did a BIAB method in the pressure cooker since it had plenty of room.  I was a little high with the water temp but not bad: it was 156* when the temperature settled down with the bag of malt in it.  It got down to 143* after an hour.

Beersmith predicted 1.039 for the recipe.  I got 1.025!

So I added some DME, I boiled it for a while and it ended up at 1.040.  I am writing to ask what your recipes are and maybe if I did something dumb.  Here's what I did:

3 Lbs of pale malt in 3.25 gallons of RO water
I targeted 5.45 pH by adding .6 grams of Gypsum, .3 grams of Calcium Chloride and 1.6 mL of Lactic acid.

I think those are the essential points, thoughts?
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline BrewingRover

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2016, 04:54:06 PM »
BeerSmith shows you the expected gravity after a boil. Did you leave it at 60 minutes? I set it 0 in my starter recipe.
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Offline Alewyfe

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2016, 04:58:38 PM »
You didn't do anything wrong. There's nothing wrong with a yeast starter a 1.025. It will make for some healthy yeast, but you will have   to use more of it to get your proper cell count. You could have just boiled it down farther to get to a higher gravity. You don't have to add DME.  My procedure: 3lbs 12oz. Pils malt. 2 gals of water in a 4-5gal stock pot heated to 155F.  I have very soft water so my pH is probably around 5.6 (I haven't checked as I don't really care for this)  Put grain bag in pot with bunge cord around it to keep it from falling in. Stir in grain. Cover and set in 150F preheated oven for 1 hour. Take grain bag out and put it into another pot or pail with 2.6 gal. of 170F water and mix to rinse well. Combine the two worts. Bring to a boil with some yeast nutrient until I get to my desired OG of 1.034-36, (I turn the burner way up and boil really hard. I can get to my desired gravity in about 15 mi.) then transfer to your hot sanitized mason jars and process. I process quarts for 1/2hr at 15# pressure.
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Offline fmader

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2016, 06:03:12 PM »
I have no experience with BIAB. But with a quick calculation, you would need 4lbs 9oz two row at 75% efficiency to get 1.040 gravity in a 3.25 gallon batch. Assuming that we're going to have nearly a half gallon loss in grain absorption, your end result will be about 2.8 gallons of wort. So in reality, 4 lbs two row would be about the ticket.
Frank

Offline yso191

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2016, 07:44:13 PM »
I have no experience with BIAB. But with a quick calculation, you would need 4lbs 9oz two row at 75% efficiency to get 1.040 gravity in a 3.25 gallon batch. Assuming that we're going to have nearly a half gallon loss in grain absorption, your end result will be about 2.8 gallons of wort. So in reality, 4 lbs two row would be about the ticket.

I wonder why BS is so far off.  I targeted the preboil gravity at 1.039.  I'm just going to decrease the water next time (since I had about a gallon left over), and up the grain.  Ah trial and error.  I guess no harm no foul.

Thanks guys.
Steve
All Hands Brewing
BJCP #D1667

Offline yso191

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2016, 07:54:47 PM »
Aha!  I just figured it out doh!

I didn't change the equipment profile.  It had me at a mash efficiency of over 100%!

I say in a small voice walking away:  "Nevermind..."
Steve
All Hands Brewing
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Offline fmader

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2016, 08:59:01 PM »
Aha!  I just figured it out doh!

I didn't change the equipment profile.  It had me at a mash efficiency of over 100%!

I say in a small voice walking away:  "Nevermind..."

Lol... At least that's an easy fix and not something with the process.

If you want 1.040 grav wort, can you just boil some off?
Frank

Offline waltsmalt

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2016, 10:41:54 PM »
I was following this in curiosity as I'm building a new system right now and the first batch will be yeast starters.  Look at your mistake as a lesson that will help at least one fellow home brewer.

Offline fmader

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2016, 10:59:23 PM »
I love this idea. My question is, how are you storing this wort?
Frank

Offline yso191

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2016, 04:23:37 AM »
I love this idea. My question is, how are you storing this wort?

In sealed quart jars.  Pressure canning kills everything (botulism, I'm looking at you), so it is just sitting on my pantry shelf.
Steve
All Hands Brewing
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Offline troybinso

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2016, 04:41:23 AM »
I have a 10g system. Sometimes I plan a recipe to take out about 3 gallons of wort to put in the pressure canner. Nice to have some ready made starter wort in mason jars.

Offline fmader

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 12:02:12 PM »
Do you reboil again when making the starter or simply just add yeast?
Frank

Offline AmandaK

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 01:11:02 PM »
Do you reboil again when making the starter or simply just add yeast?

Just add yeast. That's the beauty of pressure canning your own starter wort.  8)
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Offline fmader

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 01:52:21 PM »
Do you reboil again when making the starter or simply just add yeast?

Just add yeast. That's the beauty of pressure canning your own starter wort.  8)

Hmmm awesome. Ok. Now the questions are getting out of hand, but here's another. I don't have a pressure canner, nor do I really want to buy one. From my understanding, when you pressure can, you reach temperatures of 240 degrees. Now you can can by boiling the cans, but you only reach temps of 212. Is the wort acidic enough for 212 degrees to be adequate enough to effectively preserve the wort in the jars without risk of bacterial growth?
Frank

Offline AmandaK

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Re: All Grain Starter Wort fail
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2016, 01:56:59 PM »
Do you reboil again when making the starter or simply just add yeast?

Just add yeast. That's the beauty of pressure canning your own starter wort.  8)

Hmmm awesome. Ok. Now the questions are getting out of hand, but here's another. I don't have a pressure canner, nor do I really want to buy one. From my understanding, when you pressure can, you reach temperatures of 240 degrees. Now you can can by boiling the cans, but you only reach temps of 212. Is the wort acidic enough for 212 degrees to be adequate enough to effectively preserve the wort in the jars without risk of bacterial growth?
No. To be safe for water bath canning, it needs to be pH 4.6 or below.

Don't write off getting a pressure canner entirely, they are very useful. I have a 10qt Fagor (induction stove here, has to be stainless :/ ) and use it for anything from 8min risotto, 1hr stews, quick anything that should take 3hr braising, canning garden foods, and canning wort.
Amanda Burkemper
KC Bier Meisters Education Director
BJCP Assistant Education Director
BJCP Master/Mead

Redbird Brewhouse - There's Always a Project
Our Homebrewed Wedding, AHA Article