[69franx]

Great work Jim! Nice to see your experiments paid off

[jeffy]

Hey Jim, congratulations on the win.
I usually find the style formerly known as Dortmunder to have a mineral character, but I don't see you had any particular water additions to emphasize that unless I missed reading it. 
I am still trying to get used to the new guidelines, so it may not be as important.
The reason I am wondering about this is that the German Pilsner I recently made may better fit into the Helles Export descriptors according to the new guidelines, except for the notes about minerally water.
Maybe JT can comment on this when he gets my beer exchange package.

[klickitat jim]

My understanding is that they changed it from Dort to GHE to open it up to all of the pale colored, balanced, export strength beers rather than just those from Dortmund. So therefore the water profile could change from region to region.  I could be wrong on that though. So its going to depend on what your judge thinks it should be, and/or what the perceive in the beer. I went the route of less is more. Just enough Ca to make the yeast happy. Only a touch of Mg and Na. And on the low side of SO4. When my grand master tasters reviewed one did not mention minerals at all, as in he didn't deduct points for its lacking. The other said he detected and enjoyed the low minerals. Minerals, like spices in my opinion, are easy to over do.

[brewinhard]

Hey Jim, congratulations on the win.
I usually find the style formerly known as Dortmunder to have a mineral character, but I don't see you had any particular water additions to emphasize that unless I missed reading it. 
I am still trying to get used to the new guidelines, so it may not be as important.
The reason I am wondering about this is that the German Pilsner I recently made may better fit into the Helles Export descriptors according to the new guidelines, except for the notes about minerally water.
Maybe JT can comment on this when he gets my beer exchange package.

Helles Exportbier should have a fuller malt profile when compared to traditional german pilsner although hop bitterness levels and flavors can be similar.

[jeffy]

Hey Jim, congratulations on the win.
I usually find the style formerly known as Dortmunder to have a mineral character, but I don't see you had any particular water additions to emphasize that unless I missed reading it. 
I am still trying to get used to the new guidelines, so it may not be as important.
The reason I am wondering about this is that the German Pilsner I recently made may better fit into the Helles Export descriptors according to the new guidelines, except for the notes about minerally water.
Maybe JT can comment on this when he gets my beer exchange package.

Helles Exportbier should have a fuller malt profile when compared to traditional german pilsner although hop bitterness levels and flavors can be similar.

Reading the new guidelines leads me to think my G. Pils tastes more like a H.E..  I'll see how it does in the next competition.

[brewinhard]

You could always enter it as a Helles Export and as a German Pilsner and see where it scores higher.  You might be surprised!

[jeffy]

You could always enter it as a Helles Export and as a German Pilsner and see where it scores higher.  You might be surprised!

Entering competitions is always a surprise. 
Rather than send in twice as much beer, I prefer to keep it in the keg for personal consumption.

[hopfenundmalz]

Hey Jim, congratulations on the win.
I usually find the style formerly known as Dortmunder to have a mineral character, but I don't see you had any particular water additions to emphasize that unless I missed reading it. 
I am still trying to get used to the new guidelines, so it may not be as important.
The reason I am wondering about this is that the German Pilsner I recently made may better fit into the Helles Export descriptors according to the new guidelines, except for the notes about minerally water.
Maybe JT can comment on this when he gets my beer exchange package.

Helles Exportbier should have a fuller malt profile when compared to traditional german pilsner although hop bitterness levels and flavors can be similar.

I don't remember Augustiner Edelstoff to be hoppy. It is export strength.

Yeah I know, Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustiner-Bräu

[HoosierBrew]

I don't remember Augustiner Edelstoff to be hoppy. It is export strength.

Jeff, out of curiosity, was there a trend among the Dortmunder lagers you tried over there in terms of hop/malt balance, or did it vary ?  Admittedly I've only actually had a few Dort imports (DAB, Hansa, maybe a couple others) but they were fairly hoppy and minerally to me, ie., closer to German pils than helles. So that's how I always brewed them. But the new guidelines for helles export describe them as being maltier than these beers. I've had (and like) Great Lakes Dort Gold which to me more closely fits the new guidelines. Just curious.

[jeffy]

I was in the Spanish supermarket today and found among the Corona and Modelo a six pack of 16 ounce (half liter) cans of DAB Export for $6.99.  Such a deal!  I remember this beer, which is the first one listed as a classic example, as having a sharp, minerally character.  I will try some again after work today.
This doesn't mean that all of the beers in this category need to have this character, but it is what I remember about this particular beer and the old style descriptions.

[hopfenundmalz]

I don't remember Augustiner Edelstoff to be hoppy. It is export strength.

Jeff, out of curiosity, was there a trend among the Dortmunder lagers you tried over there in terms of hop/malt balance, or did it vary ?  Admittedly I've only actually had a few Dort imports (DAB, Hansa,, maybe a couple others) but they were fairly hoppy and minerally to me, ie., closer to German pils than helles. So that's how I always brewed them. But the new guidelines for helles export describe them as being maltier than these beers. I've had (and like) Great Lakes Dort Gold which to me more closely fits the new guidelines. Just curious.

The few we had were like a chewy Pils, a little bigger and maltier than a Pils, and minerally. There weren't many in my area in '98-'99. I don't remember any last fall.

There is more variation within German beer styles than most would think. The Guidelines are for Munich Helles. There are many a Helles in Franconia and the Oberpfalz that would not fit those guidelines, more hops. That can also be said for Dunkdels too.

[brewinhard]

I was in the Spanish supermarket today and found among the Corona and Modelo a six pack of 16 ounce (half liter) cans of DAB Export for $6.99.  Such a deal!  I remember this beer, which is the first one listed as a classic example, as having a sharp, minerally character.  I will try some again after work today.
This doesn't mean that all of the beers in this category need to have this character, but it is what I remember about this particular beer and the old style descriptions.

Is there a packaged date on those at all? Best by?  What a steal. I have never even seen those in the can.

[HoosierBrew]

I don't remember Augustiner Edelstoff to be hoppy. It is export strength.

Jeff, out of curiosity, was there a trend among the Dortmunder lagers you tried over there in terms of hop/malt balance, or did it vary ?  Admittedly I've only actually had a few Dort imports (DAB, Hansa,, maybe a couple others) but they were fairly hoppy and minerally to me, ie., closer to German pils than helles. So that's how I always brewed them. But the new guidelines for helles export describe them as being maltier than these beers. I've had (and like) Great Lakes Dort Gold which to me more closely fits the new guidelines. Just curious.

The few we had were like a chewy Pils, a little bigger and maltier than a Pils, and minerally. There weren't many in my area in '98-'99. I don't remember any last fall.

There is more variation within German beer styles than most would think. The Guidelines are for Munich Helles. There are many a Helles in Franconia and the Oberpfalz that would not fit those guidelines, more hops. That can also be said for Dunkdels too.

Good info. Thanks.

[jeffy]

I was in the Spanish supermarket today and found among the Corona and Modelo a six pack of 16 ounce (half liter) cans of DAB Export for $6.99.  Such a deal!  I remember this beer, which is the first one listed as a classic example, as having a sharp, minerally character.  I will try some again after work today.
This doesn't mean that all of the beers in this category need to have this character, but it is what I remember about this particular beer and the old style descriptions.

Is there a packaged date on those at all? Best by?  What a steal. I have never even seen those in the can.

Looks like 19 January, 2016, which is probably correct.  They used to have this in stock and I thought since I may have been the only person buying it, that they decided not to reorder.  It wasn't on the shelf six or eight weeks ago.  Now they have at least a case.

[HoosierBrew]

That is a steal. And no light skunk from the old green bottles either!  I remember getting a 3 liter mini-keg of it once that had a pretty fresh date considering the travel. It was just fantastic.