Author Topic: water profile for black lager  (Read 2216 times)

Offline gman23

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water profile for black lager
« on: February 01, 2016, 03:10:02 PM »
Brewing something similar to a schwarzbier and am curious what I should do with my water. I am planning for 'brown balanced' water profile with a mash pH of ~5.57. Does this sound like a decent plan? Color is 25 SRM
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 05:49:46 PM »
Brewing something similar to a schwarzbier and am curious what I should do with my water. I am planning for 'brown balanced' water profile with a mash pH of ~5.57. Does this sound like a decent plan? Color is 25 SRM

that's what I do on water and PH.
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Offline gman23

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2016, 06:29:03 PM »
Brewing something similar to a schwarzbier and am curious what I should do with my water. I am planning for 'brown balanced' water profile with a mash pH of ~5.57. Does this sound like a decent plan? Color is 25 SRM

that's what I do on water and PH.

Good to know. Thanks Ken!
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline mabrungard

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 10:35:17 PM »
You might find that mashing this as a pale grist first and then adding the roast addition at the end of the mash is a good option for this beer. You won't need to have the level of alkalinity that the Brown water profiles have if you are mashing the pale grist. Reserving the roast to the end does help diminish the roasty flavors, which are not really desirable at significant level in the Schwartzbier.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 10:51:16 PM »
FWIW and IMO...using carafaII-III in the mash is actually quite nice. the chocolate and coffee subtly that is really nice and balances well with the right malt and hop profile, and the higher PH makes this everything but bitter and harsh burnt roast....which is what you don't typically want with this style.


just my two cents.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline gman23

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 11:27:58 PM »
This has carafa iii special so the roast is already pretty limited. I may experiment with adding the carafa later but it may not be necessary.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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water profile for black lager
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 11:49:32 PM »
This has carafa iii special so the roast is already pretty limited. I may experiment with adding the carafa later but it may not be necessary.

Yeah experimenting is good. At the end of the day, if what you want is a black pils, just forgo the roast and add some sinamar. If you want the contribution , IMO you need to add it in the mash. I've tried tossing it in at the end and just didn't get what I wanted, so I've adjusted to meet my desired outcome.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 11:57:05 PM »
I normally mash everything but in the case of adding Carafa just for color, adding at vorlauf is a good move. Obviously Schwarz doesn't want a lot of roast character anyway.
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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2016, 11:59:59 PM »
I Guess that's where I may differ here...I'm not just looking for color in Schwarzbier. IMO subtle smooth roast , chocolate and coffee nots are great, and blended with malt from Munich and pils with good hop balance makes it so tasty.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2016, 12:04:58 AM »
I Guess that's where I may differ here...I'm not just looking for color in Schwarzbier. IMO subtle smooth roast , chocolate and coffee nots are great, and blended with malt from Munich and pils with good hop balance makes it so tasty.


I didn't mean to say a schwarz shouldn't have a subtle roast. I like that in it. Just seems to be a beer where you could mash it or not to get that. I'm sure yours is killer, no doubt. That's a style I haven't brewed in quite a while !
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Offline gman23

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2016, 12:06:55 AM »
I Guess that's where I may differ here...I'm not just looking for color in Schwarzbier. IMO subtle smooth roast , chocolate and coffee nots are great, and blended with malt from Munich and pils with good hop balance makes it so tasty.


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I agree with this. Mine has a couple of quirky things that keep it from being a traditional schwarz so I don't concern myself too much with trying to match the style.
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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water profile for black lager
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2016, 12:07:35 AM »
Understood.....I just haven't gotten what I expect out of it when I tossed it in at the end for Schwarzbier.   End of the day it just depends on what you expect and what you want....no right or wrong answer.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 12:10:14 AM »

I Guess that's where I may differ here...I'm not just looking for color in Schwarzbier. IMO subtle smooth roast , chocolate and coffee nots are great, and blended with malt from Munich and pils with good hop balance makes it so tasty.


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I agree with this. Mine has a couple of quirky things that keep it from being a traditional schwarz so I don't concern myself too much with trying to match the style.

There are some very different Schwarzbier out there. For me, the ones wth noticeable Munich malt, and subtle roast that adds notes of chocolate and coffee are to my liking.


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline gman23

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 12:11:15 AM »
Understood.....I just haven't gotten what I expect out of it when I tossed it in at the end for Schwarzbier.   End of the day it just depends on what you expect and what you want....no right or wrong answer.


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I want some roast. I think I will reserve the late additions for something like a black IPA
On Tap/Bottled: Kurbis Marzen, Red Rye, Vienna Lager, Dry Hopped Peach Cider       

Fermenting: Imperial Porter, Hopfenbier
Up Next: Maibock, Braunbier

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: water profile for black lager
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 12:15:44 AM »
Mine has 4.6% carafa II and 1.1% midnight wheat. The rest is 55% light Munich, 37% pils, 2.3% caramunich


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest