Author Topic: water talk  (Read 966 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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water talk
« on: February 04, 2016, 11:51:05 AM »
Folks, I'm going to give a talk on water at the next homebrew meeting. (I know, I know, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king). Basic introduction to pH, salts, using water software and such.

To make the talk more interesting I would like to fiddle with some commercial beers by adding salts, acid and what not, and have people taste. What would be a good scheme? Use simple lager, preboil salts in water and then add a drop or so into each glass or bottle?  Which ingredients? What concentrations? Which combinations?
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.

Offline jeffy

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Re: water talk
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 12:56:30 PM »
I think it would be more enlightening to use a dark roasty beer for one and a pale hoppy beer for the other.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water talk
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 02:42:07 PM »
John Palmer did a talk some years back where he brewed a pale beer with a pale profile and a dark profile, and a dark beer with both of those profiles. The samples showed what the correct water could do.

You might do the same by doctoring a pale beer to have a higher pH, and doctoring a dark beer to have a low pH.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: water talk
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 02:50:25 PM »
John Palmer did a talk some years back where he brewed a pale beer with a pale profile and a dark profile, and a dark beer with both of those profiles. The samples showed what the correct water could do.

You might do the same by doctoring a pale beer to have a higher pH, and doctoring a dark beer to have a low pH.

Thanks, that should cover pH. How about the salts?
Frank P.

Staggering on the shoulders of giant dwarfs.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water talk
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 02:56:29 PM »
John Palmer did a talk some years back where he brewed a pale beer with a pale profile and a dark profile, and a dark beer with both of those profiles. The samples showed what the correct water could do.

You might do the same by doctoring a pale beer to have a higher pH, and doctoring a dark beer to have a low pH.


That would be the best way to show the effects IMO. Good idea.
Jon H.

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water talk
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 03:33:45 PM »
John Palmer did a talk some years back where he brewed a pale beer with a pale profile and a dark profile, and a dark beer with both of those profiles. The samples showed what the correct water could do.

You might do the same by doctoring a pale beer to have a higher pH, and doctoring a dark beer to have a low pH.

Thanks, that should cover pH. How about the salts?

If you have a beer that you know the levels of SO4 and Cl, use gypsum and CaCl2 to dose samples with each to the maximum recommeced, or more. Have an undoctored sample as a control that they can go back to. So have a control, max SO4, max Cl to show what those do.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline weiht

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Re: water talk
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 02:09:02 AM »
It will be fun and cool, but how do u measure sub milligram worth of salts? Considering that you seldom go above 10-12 grams of any one salt for a full 5 gallon.
Don't take it personal, there will be people who dislike your beer!!

Offline erockrph

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Re: water talk
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 04:39:23 AM »
It will be fun and cool, but how do u measure sub milligram worth of salts? Considering that you seldom go above 10-12 grams of any one salt for a full 5 gallon.
You can dissolve them in a small amount of water to a known, then dose it using a syringe.
Eric B.

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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water talk
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 01:51:32 PM »
It will be fun and cool, but how do u measure sub milligram worth of salts? Considering that you seldom go above 10-12 grams of any one salt for a full 5 gallon.
You can dissolve them in a small amount of water to a known, then dose it using a syringe.
+1

I assume this will have many samples to be tasted. As said, use the minerals in a liter or 2 of water and add to beers, or pour a pitcher of beer and dose that quantity. For an IPA I use a lot of gypsum, say 5 grams for 20 liters to keep the numbers easy. So for a one liter sample, that rate is 0.25 grams, and my gram scale goes down to 0.01 grams, so no problem.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: water talk
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 05:20:40 PM »
I'm going to brew a Mosaic APA with extract and steeped carapils and caramunich, and no salts. I guess that should cover the blond beer.
Frank P.

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Offline weiht

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Re: water talk
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 03:55:57 PM »
My scale only reads 1gm  >:(

Looks like i gotta prepare like 4L and syringe a couple of ml down from there.  :o
Don't take it personal, there will be people who dislike your beer!!

Offline mabrungard

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Re: water talk
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2016, 04:08:10 PM »
My scale only reads 1gm  >:(

Looks like i gotta prepare like 4L and syringe a couple of ml down from there.  :o

If you are a probrewer dealing with multi-barrel batch size, then a scale with 1 gram reporting is OK. But for the typical homebrew-sized batches, you really need to get a scale that reports down to a tenth gram for the mineral additions we deal with. Scales are relatively cheap.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: water talk
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 04:12:36 PM »
This one is cheap, reliable and measures to .01g .  I use it for hops and water salts.


http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-0-01g-Digital-Scale/dp/B0012LOQUQ

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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: water talk
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 04:29:57 PM »
This one is cheap, reliable and measures to .01g .  I use it for hops and water salts.


http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-0-01g-Digital-Scale/dp/B0012LOQUQ

Same scale I use. Very good value for a very reasonable price.
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: water talk
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2016, 04:07:11 PM »
This one is cheap, reliable and measures to .01g .  I use it for hops and water salts.


http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-0-01g-Digital-Scale/dp/B0012LOQUQ
That is what I use. Wow, that is a good price. Do I need a spare?
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!