Author Topic: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question  (Read 1738 times)

Offline syncopadence

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WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« on: February 07, 2016, 03:49:56 PM »
Hey guys, this is my first time using this yeast, so I'm a little in the dark.  OG was 1.051, now at 1.007 after 5 days, fermented at 68*.  I'm getting a lot of hefeweizen kinda flavor right now.  I wanted to transfer to secondary with some blood oranges today, but I was wondering if I should wait longer?  Where should I go from here?
Thanks for any help.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 03:59:24 PM »
I wouldn't rack any beer after 5 days. I'd wait until you get 2-3 identical hydrometer readings, each a day or two apart. Then rack to secondary to add the fruit . Saison yeasts can take a little while to hit FG - depending on your grist and mash schedule you might end up as low as 1.002 - 1.004 FG.
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Offline duboman

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 04:01:29 PM »
It may drop a couple more points but you will also get secondary fermentation from the oranges, I would rack to a secondary vessel onto the oranges and let it finish fermenting out, not even necessary to hold temp, just let it free rise and finish

Edit, Jon chimed in before me and I'd concur with him as well, really either way IMO

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Offline coolman26

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 04:17:19 PM »
Have a 565 kegged right now.  Started at 1.056 and finished at 1.002 for me. Fermented at 70 and let it set on the yeast for 3 weeks.  Really good stuff
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 05:20:34 PM »
I'm not an advocate of the idea that floats around some forums that all beers need 4-6 weeks in the primary but when it comes to saison yeasts I tend to give them a little more time in the fermentation vessel. I find giving the yeast a few extra weeks to hang out with the beer and condition results in a more articulate ester/phenol profile. So I definitely would not be thinking about moving the beer for several weeks.

Many disagree with me about saison yeast although they are wrong.  ;D
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 06:08:42 PM »
I'm not an advocate of the idea that floats around some forums that all beers need 4-6 weeks in the primary but when it comes to saison yeasts I tend to give them a little more time in the fermentation vessel. I find giving the yeast a few extra weeks to hang out with the beer and condition results in a more articulate ester/phenol profile. So I definitely would not be thinking about moving the beer for several weeks.

Many disagree with me about saison yeast although they are wrong.  ;D

Totally agree - 5 days is nowhere near enough time. I never take a saison out of primary until at least 3 weeks. Hefe (banana) flavor in a saison is a fault, IMO. Warm that thing up to the low 70s for a few weeks.

Offline dilluh98

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 06:19:21 PM »
Also, 565 is a fast worker but don't be fooled by the low gravity so early on. IMO, saisons need that bump in temp + time to really come into their own.

Offline weiht

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2016, 12:31:06 PM »
Agreed, and I always naturally carbonate in the keg. Somehow, the refermentation in the keg adds to the magic of the yeast and I won't drink it until after 6 weeks. Okay, I do drink it earlier of course lol, but I did a batch where i bottled the saison and pop one open each week to taste where it starts to shine and peak, and where it starts to drop off.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 12:53:25 PM »
Also, 565 is a fast worker but don't be fooled by the low gravity so early on. IMO, saisons need that bump in temp + time to really come into their own.


I agree, saison shouldn't be rushed.
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Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 03:54:50 AM »
Some say that 565 is also pressure sensitive, so this one might be better left in the primary with loose foil covering it.  Naturally carbonating is fine as long as the yeast is coaxed to completion first - raising the temp is frequently used to get the yeast to finish up.
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Offline coolman26

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 03:51:04 PM »
Some say that 565 is also pressure sensitive, so this one might be better left in the primary with loose foil covering it.  Naturally carbonating is fine as long as the yeast is coaxed to completion first - raising the temp is frequently used to get the yeast to finish up.
I've not heard this.  I do know when I split my Saison between 3 different yeasts, they took a bit to finished.  I didn't do any crazy temps that I've read about.  I fermented in the high 60's, then raised to low 70's.  They finished the last few points once I raised temp after 2 weeks.  I kegged after a month, thought it was 3 weeks.  Saison just takes time.  I will just loosely cover the fermenter the next time on 565.   
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Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 04:24:10 PM »
Some say that 565 is also pressure sensitive, so this one might be better left in the primary with loose foil covering it.  Naturally carbonating is fine as long as the yeast is coaxed to completion first - raising the temp is frequently used to get the yeast to finish up.

This.  565/Dupont is a mutated strain of wine yeast used at Brassierie Dupont.  When saisons first became really popular (right when I started brewing), the yeast was confounding homebrewers all over the place.  "Ferment it in the lower 90's!", and "saisons need 2-3 MONTHS to finish" were common forum-perpetuated homebrewing myths. 

After hearing Denny and Drew hypothesize that it was a wine yeast, I started fermenting with it and piece of sanitized foil over the airlock for the first few days, and haven't had a stall since.  Wine yeasts are also known to ferment in the upper 70's and not produce fusels, which Dupont can also do.  I typically go one week at 68, then another week to ten days at 72-74, but am thinking of bumping the initial ferment/pitch temp up the next time we brew with it. 

Get rid of the pressure in the headspace, and it behaves like any other big-attenuating sacc yeast.
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Offline denny

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 04:25:58 PM »
Some say that 565 is also pressure sensitive, so this one might be better left in the primary with loose foil covering it.  Naturally carbonating is fine as long as the yeast is coaxed to completion first - raising the temp is frequently used to get the yeast to finish up.

This.  565/Dupont is a mutated strain of wine yeast used at Brassierie Dupont.  When saisons first became really popular (right when I started brewing), the yeast was confounding homebrewers all over the place.  "Ferment it in the lower 90's!", and "saisons need 2-3 MONTHS to finish" were common forum-perpetuated homebrewing myths. 

After hearing Denny and Drew hypothesize that it was a wine yeast, I started fermenting with it and piece of sanitized foil over the airlock for the first few days, and haven't had a stall since.  Wine yeasts are also known to ferment in the upper 70's and not produce fusels, which Dupont can also do.  I typically go one week at 68, then another week to ten days at 72-74, but am thinking of bumping the initial ferment/pitch temp up the next time we brew with it. 

Get rid of the pressure in the headspace, and it behaves like any other big-attenuating sacc yeast.

Drew is a firm advocate of that fermentation method for that yeast.
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Offline dilluh98

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 06:10:18 PM »
+1. This has been my experience with this yeast as well. Loose foil for the first 3 days of fermentation then throw an airlock on it. Even if a bit finicky, 565 is hands down my favorite saison yeast.

Offline mpietropaoli

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Re: WLP565 Belgian Saison I question
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 01:49:31 PM »
+1. This has been my experience with this yeast as well. Loose foil for the first 3 days of fermentation then throw an airlock on it. Even if a bit finicky, 565 is hands down my favorite saison yeast.

Agreed.  Other saison yeasts produce decent beer, but there is no replacing Dupont.
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Flowin': IIPA, Doppelbock, Flanders
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Thinkin': wit, more helles