Author Topic: Huh?  (Read 750 times)

Offline dean

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Huh?
« on: June 21, 2010, 08:58:52 AM »
I was just looking at the competition pages on the AHA calendar, I've got some questions I'm just wondering about.

I've seen prices per entry ranging from $3 to $13... per entry?  The average looks to be about $6.  Whats up with that, why doesn't the AHA set a standard price?

Forms, I thought no recipe was required but its on the AHA form which is required by most clubs.   ???

Number of bottles per entry... I saw one requiring 4 bottles per entry... why so many  ???  check it out... http://www.sudsontheshore.com/rules-a-regulations



Offline denny

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 09:21:59 AM »
Dean, the AHA doesn't set a price because that's up to the organizers of each individual comp.  They set the price to cover their expenses.  Same thing with number of bottles.  Each comp. decides what they need.  Also, in 12 years of beer comps, I've never gotten an entry form that requires a recipe, so I don't think "most clubs" do.  That only really applies to the NHC, so that winning recipes can be published in Zymurgy.  If a comp. organizer wants to use the AHA form or require recipes, that's up to them individually.  You don't want MORE regulation, do you?  ;)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 09:25:04 AM by denny »
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Offline dean

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 09:42:20 AM »
Well, they do require the AHA/BJCP Sanctioned Competition Program form, and it does ask for the recipe, OG, FG, yeast used, starter etc. etc. etc.

This past weekend a member on here posted about entering an IPA which was fermented with lager yeast... if a judge read that, it will automatically taint their perception.  How can it be a blind taste test if the judges are told what and how, shouldn't they be able to detect those things without being told?

Hey, as for dollar amounts, that could put a slant on things as well.  jmo...  it seems almost political really.   ;)

Offline denny

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 09:51:03 AM »
Well, they do require the AHA/BJCP Sanctioned Competition Program form, and it does ask for the recipe, OG, FG, yeast used, starter etc. etc. etc.

This past weekend a member on here posted about entering an IPA which was fermented with lager yeast... if a judge read that, it will automatically taint their perception.  How can it be a blind taste test if the judges are told what and how, shouldn't they be able to detect those things without being told?

Hey, as for dollar amounts, that could put a slant on things as well.  jmo...  it seems almost political really.   ;)

OK a few quick points...

each comp decides what entry form they want to us.  I've never had to fill one out that asks for the recipe.  Our club certainly doesn't ask or use that form when we have a comp.

the judges NEVER, repeat NEVER, see the entry forms.  Neither do the stewards who serve the beer.  The judges know absolutely nothing about the beer other than what style it was entered as.  So even if lager yeast for an IPA was listed on an entry form, the judges would have no idea.

the $$ amounts are up to each comp.  If you have an issue with them, you need top take it up with the person running that particular comp.

the ONLY comp. the AHA has ANY control over is the National Homebrew comp. (NHC).
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 09:58:33 AM »
Dean, the judges do not see the recipe.  You only supply the recipe to the NHC if your beer makes it to the 2nd round.  This is for publication in Zymurgy, and it has to be in before the competition to help meet the publication deadlline.  They also ask for a picture at that time for publication.

As Denny says, the fees are to cover costs.  The supplies, awards, lunch for the judges+stewards and the room rental for judging can all add up to a considerable amount.  Some competitions are lucky to break even.  You also need to know that the competitions are run by volunteers.

Jeff Rankert
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Offline MDixon

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 10:05:13 AM »
Judges generally get little to no information on entries with the exception of the category where it is entered. In certain categories the entrant is REQUIRED to submit some information, but that is only in a handful of categories.

Prices can range from inexpensive to expensive for any number of reasons. Perhaps it is the only fundraiser for the club so they charge $8, perhaps the club doesn't need much money and wants to drive up entries so they charge $4. Our club would like fewer entries so we tend to charge a lower price for the first few entries and as the entry count increases so do the charges. In 2009 I think we were $6 for 1-5 entries, then it jumped to $8 for 6-9, and $10 for 10 and over. People didn't get the point so in 2010 we did $6 for 1-4 entries, then $10 for 5 and over. That left a sour taste in many people's mouth thinking we were gouging so next year we are currently discussing $4 for 1-5 entries and $15 for 6 and over. We need ~$4-$5 to break even and are trying to drop our entries from the 441 we had in 2007. We had 424 in 2008, 441 in 2009 and got back to 343 in 2010. Our goal is 300 or less and to keep the entries low we had to drop meads and ciders in 2009 and 2010 which normally brought in another 100 entries.

Back to the original question about number of entries per brewer, I am unsure why any comp other than the AHA would need more than 3 bottles. The AHA needs 1 initially and 3 later. In reality on some categories they should require 2 initially and 3 later.
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Offline dean

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Re: Huh?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 10:17:25 AM »
MDixon, the method your club uses seems like a good way to do it, I understand what you're saying too.

As for the high entry fees I saw listed in the comps; somebody better have big cajones or count on getting lucky in that not many will enter.   :D   (My money would be on fewer entries.)   And as MDixon said, maybe they want fewer yet raise some funds for their club.