Author Topic: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash  (Read 1153 times)

Offline egg

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Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« on: February 13, 2016, 09:32:34 AM »
I'm planning to do a hefe this weekend, progressively adding liquor to step mash by infusion.  I have all my quantities worked out, taking the 4.7Kg of grain through various rests, starting out with only 6.6L liquor (1.4L/Kg) through to 3.9L/Kg at the end, over 100 minutes. This is something I have read others doing successfully.

My question is how (if at all) do you adapt your liquor treatment, as compared to preparing for a single infusion? Do I just calculate what pH I would be aiming for in the main beta-amylase step, or do I make adjustments for how the grains will have less buffering from the liquor at lower volumes, while they are at those rests.  Will it matter? I have about 120ppm CaCO3 (UK water!), with acidulated malt and CRS at hand.

Offline narcout

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 02:41:46 PM »
My experience has been that the pH will rise slightly even if I use distilled water for the second infusion.  I've just been letting it ride (alpha favors a slightly higher pH than beta anyway). 

It would be easy to acidify the infusion water with a bit of lactic or phosphoric acid though, and I've been contemplating that for future step mashes.

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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 02:56:00 PM »
same here. Ive been targeting around 5.4-5.5 in beta rest, and after mash complete following alpha im in the 5.5ish range.
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Offline egg

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 04:48:25 PM »
Thanks.  This is my schedule, though I may miss out the mashout and just start sparging:

6.6L @ 50C for 43C (109f) rest 1.4L/Kg (10 mins)
2.3L @ 100C for 55C (131f) rest 1.9Kg/L (20 mins)
3.5L @ 100C for 66C (151f) rest 2.6L/Kg (40 mins)
2.5L @ 100C for 71C (160f) rest 3.2L/Kg (20 mins)
3.5L @ 100C for 76C (169f) rest 3.9L/Kg (10 mins)

So if the pH were topping 5.5 after the second rest at 131f, I could acidify to practically zero (?) CaCO3 for the saccharification.  If I start using bottled (low alkalinity) water I also have low calcium, and all I've got to correct that is gypsum at the moment, which is going to boost the sulphate.  I have just under 2:1 sulphate:chloride tap water, so I really need to get something other than AMS/CRS for next time.  I'm keeping the IBUs well down.

Offline denny

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 05:11:15 PM »
What the heck are you making with that mash schedule?
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Offline egg

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 05:53:05 PM »
What the heck are you making with that mash schedule?

A hefeweizen! Interested in your thoughts.

Offline JJeffers09

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 06:04:28 PM »
If you are going Hefeweizen you are missing a decoction.  IMO (*edit - and not only my opinion) you have to have it for your hefe to have the right body.  I am not sure why the 20min step to 160F.

My mash schedule for wheat beers looks like this:
110F 10 mins
133F 30 mins
pull 1/3 for decoction - 10min rest at 150F then boil 15mins meet at the end of the 30 min rest above
152F for 30 mins
Mash Out

I have only done that for a partial mash though, doing that with just wheat malt and adding it too my boil kettle.  The 110F rest for the clove and the 133F for the protein rest.  Here is a good article on Hefeweizen
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile
Between Gulbransen and Brynildson, you are getting good advice on wheat beers.
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Offline egg

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Re: Mash pH during Infusion Step Mash
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2016, 06:41:40 PM »
If you are going Hefeweizen you are missing a decoction.  IMO (*edit - and not only my opinion) you have to have it for your hefe to have the right body.  I am not sure why the 20min step to 160F.

My mash schedule for wheat beers looks like this:
110F 10 mins
133F 30 mins
pull 1/3 for decoction - 10min rest at 150F then boil 15mins meet at the end of the 30 min rest above
152F for 30 mins
Mash Out

I have only done that for a partial mash though, doing that with just wheat malt and adding it too my boil kettle.  The 110F rest for the clove and the 133F for the protein rest.  Here is a good article on Hefeweizen
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2265-german-hefeweizen-style-profile
Between Gulbransen and Brynildson, you are getting good advice on wheat beers.

A good article, that I've seen in the past, and good to see your schedule.  I brewed this today.  Whoa! It makes for a very busy mash, with lots of adjustments on the fly.  It didn't go as planned! Although I somehow ended up with close enough to my target gravity points/L, I inadvertently skipped the alpha rest, due to shooting straight to mashout with some boiled runnings I'd drained off, in turn to compensate for extra water added to get up to the sacc rest earlier (avoiding thinning it further).  My first rest also sailed over to 46/47C, though the others hit the mark.  I had to stop sparging as the runnings got to thin, 3L or so short of pre boil volume, so I think I missed some conversion in the limited 40m sacc rest, losing the alpha.

Healthy starter of WLP 300 pitched, but this beer will have to be very good to repeat that lot any time soon!

[EDIT] The pH was around 5.2/5.3 on the sacc rest.  I'd done some calcs on the fly a little, treating the liquor down to 33ppm CaCO3 with 3% acidulated malt in the grist; hopefully OK.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 08:24:49 PM by egg »