[Thirsty_Monk]

I love to blend base malt. No muddy flavor there.

[elemenop]

I love to blend base malt. No muddy flavor there.

Depends on the base malts and the ratio and what you expect to achieve but I wasn't referring to just base malts.  Blending of base malts is fairly common, I would guess, it's when you throw in those 4 types of roast grains that have been laying around... oh and those two bags of crystal that you get, what some artists call - mud.  One can only expect to achieve so much per malt.

That's why a high malt count beer would have a high perceived "value".

[HoosierBrew]

I love to blend base malt. No muddy flavor there.

No arguments, Leos. I blend pils malts, pils and Munich etc on occasion. Just meant that I normally use one base . No hard and fast rules for me !

[hopfenundmalz]

Here is one for you. From Zymurgy some years back, one of the Brewers helped on the recipe.

6 malts, and malt extract to hit the target OG. This is a big beer and commands a higher price.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=10220.0

[toby]

In running a commercial brewery is there a reasonable maximum number of malts that the brewer employs in a recipe due to cost, workflow, availability etc... (obviously there's no hard limit or theoretical limit)?

What are some reasons for this limit?

Would one ever find a commercial beer recipe that employs 7 or 8 different malt types as in some homebrew recipes?  Does this add a lot of cost to the recipe for a commercial brewery?

In most cases, KISS principle.  That being said, there are brewers that use multiple malts for various reasons.  NOLA Brewing's Brown Ale has 8 different malts in it in order to add complexity to a low ABV beer (DEM in the 3.9% ABV range).  Other times, there may be a gimmick involved.  Schmaltz brewing has an anniversary beer that uses the number of malts that correspond to their age.  Until last year, they were going for everything around a theme (e.g. 17 malts, 17 hops, 17% ABV).  For 18 they kept the malts and hops, but kept the ABV to between 12-13% since they wanted to maximize their distribution.

We've all heard that "simple is better" but it seems commercial brewery outfits are forced into compliance with this cliché. (i.e. no Munich Dunkel with 6 types of malts...)

If commercial breweries are keeping it simple what makes homebrewers think that their many malt recipe will be "good" or that all of the malts are contributing something useful?

Personally, I've been trying to work on simplifying my grain bills the past few years.  Usually, the only styles where I'm using more than a couple are dark styles.

[elemenop]

Here is one for you. From Zymurgy some years back, one of the Brewers helped on the recipe.

6 malts, and malt extract to hit the target OG. This is a big beer and commands a higher price.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=10220.0

I can see a big stout having 6 different malts though perhaps not anything out the ordinary.  Most big stouts do command a premium.  Thanks for this.

[elemenop]

In running a commercial brewery is there a reasonable maximum number of malts that the brewer employs in a recipe due to cost, workflow, availability etc... (obviously there's no hard limit or theoretical limit)?

What are some reasons for this limit?

Would one ever find a commercial beer recipe that employs 7 or 8 different malt types as in some homebrew recipes?  Does this add a lot of cost to the recipe for a commercial brewery?

In most cases, KISS principle.  That being said, there are brewers that use multiple malts for various reasons.  NOLA Brewing's Brown Ale has 8 different malts in it in order to add complexity to a low ABV beer (DEM in the 3.9% ABV range).  Other times, there may be a gimmick involved.  Schmaltz brewing has an anniversary beer that uses the number of malts that correspond to their age.  Until last year, they were going for everything around a theme (e.g. 17 malts, 17 hops, 17% ABV).  For 18 they kept the malts and hops, but kept the ABV to between 12-13% since they wanted to maximize their distribution.

We've all heard that "simple is better" but it seems commercial brewery outfits are forced into compliance with this cliché. (i.e. no Munich Dunkel with 6 types of malts...)

If commercial breweries are keeping it simple what makes homebrewers think that their many malt recipe will be "good" or that all of the malts are contributing something useful?

Personally, I've been trying to work on simplifying my grain bills the past few years.  Usually, the only styles where I'm using more than a couple are dark styles.

NOLA Brown Ale @ 7 malts is interesting, never tried it, does it command a premium price?

Dark styles it is, though one might try a simple ale with 1 pound of 10 different base malts... may add some complexity... if not confuse those drinking it...

[majorvices]

I think that it is common in commercial brewing to find limited amount of specialty malts in a beer because of the sheer difficulty of keeping so many malts in inventory, but aside from that there is no limiting factor.

Off the top of my head here are the malts I have in stock right now, and I bet it rivals most of the homebrewers on this forum.

Best Pils
Best Vienna
Best Munich I
Best Munich II
Best Wheat
Best Smoked Malt
Briess Pale Ale Malt
Briess Midnight Wheat
Weyermann Cara Red
Weyermann Carafa Special II
Thomas fawcett Rye Malt
Thomas Fawcett maris Otter
Thomas Fawcett Roast Barley
Thomas Fawcett Dark Crystal
Franco Belges CaraVienne
FrancoBelges CaraMunich
FrancoBelges Chocolate Malt
Flaked Rye
Flaked Barley
(there is probably another 10 varities I am omitting accidentally)

Now, granted, some of those are just a couple sacks a piece for small 1 bbl batches but I can plan any recipe I want and order those malts at any time. But for convenience factor I do try to minimize the amounts of malts that go into my beer. especially the flagships. For instance I order Best Pils, Munich, Vienna and Wheat my the pallet (each) while the specialty malts I order as a mixed pallet with maybe only 2-5 sacks on each order.

[elemenop]

I think that it is common in commercial brewing to find limited amount of specialty malts in a beer because of the sheer difficulty of keeping so many malts in inventory, but aside from that there is no limiting factor.

Off the top of my head here are the malts I have in stock right now, and I bet it rivals most of the homebrewers on this forum.

Best Pils
Best Vienna
Best Munich I
Best Munich II
Best Wheat
Best Smoked Malt
Briess Pale Ale Malt
Briess Midnight Wheat
Weyermann Cara Red
Weyermann Carafa Special II
Thomas fawcett Rye Malt
Thomas Fawcett maris Otter
Thomas Fawcett Roast Barley
Thomas Fawcett Dark Crystal
Franco Belges CaraVienne
FrancoBelges CaraMunich
FrancoBelges Chocolate Malt
Flaked Rye
Flaked Barley
(there is probably another 10 varities I am omitting accidentally)

Now, granted, some of those are just a couple sacks a piece for small 1 bbl batches but I can plan any recipe I want and order those malts at any time. But for convenience factor I do try to minimize the amounts of malts that go into my beer. especially the flagships. For instance I order Best Pils, Munich, Vienna and Wheat my the pallet (each) while the specialty malts I order as a mixed pallet with maybe only 2-5 sacks on each order.

You have 30 malts in inventory but how many are used in a single recipe?  Which of your recipes has the highest malt count?  How does that contribute to the cost of the final product?  What is your highest "value" recipe and which ingredient makes it so (malt, hops, yeast, water, specialty ingredients)?

[toby]

NOLA Brown Ale @ 7 malts is interesting, never tried it, does it command a premium price?

Nope.  It's one of their flagships and runs $8-10 a six pack, which is normal retail price for most locals.  It uses a lot of different malts, but at a 3.9% ABV, it's not going to use a costly amount of each.

[majorvices]

To answer the question: Flagships use 3-4 malts, specialties can use as many as needed. You use specialty beers to market your flagships so you don't worry about cost as much (though you do want to break even.). I don't really have any incentive to share any more financial information from my brewery.

[hopfenundmalz]

Larger breweries get base grains by the semi load, or rail car load. Specialty grains in super sacks.

Buying in bulk applies for breweries, just as in Homebrewing.

[denny]

Commercial Brewer are not limited an any way how many speciality malts they use.

It is matter of opinion, intention and taste. That's that simple.

THIS^^^^ whatever it takes, and nothing more.

[elemenop]

So the assertion made in a lot of clone brew articles that commercial breweries use less malts than home brewers is essentially false.  It's just the authors of said articles justifying the use of the malts they've selected...

Heh. Mildly amusing... mostly annoying.

Apologies for grilling you guys like a cheese sandwich but we needs answers, we neeeeds answers!

[HoosierBrew]

So the assertion made in a lot of clone brew articles that commercial breweries use less malts than home brewers is essentially false.  It's just the authors of said articles justifying the use of the malts they've selected...

Heh. Mildly amusing... mostly annoying.

Probably hard to generalize in such a booming industry - I'm sure some breweries use a lot more malts than others.