Author Topic: PH 101  (Read 1179 times)

Offline flbrewer

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PH 101
« on: February 15, 2016, 11:11:32 PM »
So I may break out the ole PH meter tomorrow (picked up a Milwaukee PH56) on a brew day. I am using Bru'n'Water, but assuming I want to check the mash and possibly adjust can someone give me the 101.

-How do I check the PH in the mash?

-What do I do if it's too high/low?

Cheers and thanks for answering my lazy post.

Offline 69franx

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 11:33:48 PM »
Pull a small sample, say a shot glass worth of wort. Cool to room temp, then take a reading (after having calibrated your meter). Lactic acid can lower for you if too high, lime or baking soda to raise if too low. On the other hand, Martin suggests not chasing your pH mid mash. Just run with it and make good notes, then adjust accordingly on the next iteration of the brew. How much lime, baking soda, or lactic to add really depends on how far off you are. Using Bru'NWater, you should be able to quantify the projected effect of a measured amount of any of these and adjust accordingly. Good luck, hope htis helped at least a little
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Offline Philbrew

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 11:35:21 PM »
So I may break out the ole PH meter tomorrow (picked up a Milwaukee PH56) on a brew day. I am using Bru'n'Water, but assuming I want to check the mash and possibly adjust can someone give me the 101.

-How do I check the PH in the mash?

-What do I do if it's too high/low?

Cheers and thanks for answering my lazy post.
I think you want to pull out a small sample, cool it to 72ish and then take your reading.  But then, I may be all wet on that.  It helps to have a small metal container for the sample so it doesn't take forever to cool.  I found an antique silver shot glass that works great.

Edit:  franx beat me to it but confirmed the room temp. thing.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 11:37:48 PM by Philbrew »
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Offline wingnut

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 12:23:44 PM »
I bought a bunch of small plastic dixie cups that work well.  put a half inch into the cup, and stick it into the freezer for 5 minutes... works great. 

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Offline pete b

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 12:42:15 PM »
Are people who use brun water and testing the ph finding it to be off a lot. My intention is to continue relying on brun water and not buying a ph meter and not pulling a Dixie cup of wort and testing it after calibrating the stupid ph meter then cleaning it and storing it in some goddamned storage solution then adjusting the ph and or taking notes. Sounds like something that I don't want to add to my brew day. My guess is the ph pretty much always comes out just fine and ph is something that is important but worried about too much.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 01:19:27 PM »
Are people who use brun water and testing the ph finding it to be off a lot. My intention is to continue relying on brun water and not buying a ph meter and not pulling a Dixie cup of wort and testing it after calibrating the stupid ph meter then cleaning it and storing it in some goddamned storage solution then adjusting the ph and or taking notes. Sounds like something that I don't want to add to my brew day. My guess is the ph pretty much always comes out just fine and ph is something that is important but worried about too much.

ive found some issues as it relates to expected PH of base malts. the software uses formula related to base, crystal, roast, and acid malt, and the lovibond. some of my avangard malts dont seem to align, and therefor I was getting lower than expected PH. most dramatic is the pils base malt. its comes in around 5.4PH vs 5.7-5.8PH that typical pils with 1.5-2 lov might be expected to register.

software guides me, but the PH meter tells the truth.
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Offline pete b

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2016, 01:24:38 PM »
Are people who use brun water and testing the ph finding it to be off a lot. My intention is to continue relying on brun water and not buying a ph meter and not pulling a Dixie cup of wort and testing it after calibrating the stupid ph meter then cleaning it and storing it in some goddamned storage solution then adjusting the ph and or taking notes. Sounds like something that I don't want to add to my brew day. My guess is the ph pretty much always comes out just fine and ph is something that is important but worried about too much.

ive found some issues as it relates to expected PH of base malts. the software uses formula related to base, crystal, roast, and acid malt, and the lovibond. some of my avangard malts dont seem to align, and therefor I was getting lower than expected PH. most dramatic is the pils base malt. its comes in around 5.4PH vs 5.7-5.8PH that typical pils with 1.5-2 lov might be expected to register.

software guides me, but the PH meter tells the truth.
If its wrong what do you do?
Don't let the bastards cheer you up.

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 01:36:59 PM »

Are people who use brun water and testing the ph finding it to be off a lot. My intention is to continue relying on brun water and not buying a ph meter and not pulling a Dixie cup of wort and testing it after calibrating the stupid ph meter then cleaning it and storing it in some goddamned storage solution then adjusting the ph and or taking notes. Sounds like something that I don't want to add to my brew day. My guess is the ph pretty much always comes out just fine and ph is something that is important but worried about too much.

ive found some issues as it relates to expected PH of base malts. the software uses formula related to base, crystal, roast, and acid malt, and the lovibond. some of my avangard malts dont seem to align, and therefor I was getting lower than expected PH. most dramatic is the pils base malt. its comes in around 5.4PH vs 5.7-5.8PH that typical pils with 1.5-2 lov might be expected to register.

software guides me, but the PH meter tells the truth.
If its wrong what do you do?
Once I figure it out, I adjusted the lovibond up to account for PH .


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Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2016, 01:40:48 PM »
Are people who use brun water and testing the ph finding it to be off a lot. My intention is to continue relying on brun water and not buying a ph meter and not pulling a Dixie cup of wort and testing it after calibrating the stupid ph meter then cleaning it and storing it in some goddamned storage solution then adjusting the ph and or taking notes. Sounds like something that I don't want to add to my brew day. My guess is the ph pretty much always comes out just fine and ph is something that is important but worried about too much.

ive found some issues as it relates to expected PH of base malts. the software uses formula related to base, crystal, roast, and acid malt, and the lovibond. some of my avangard malts dont seem to align, and therefor I was getting lower than expected PH. most dramatic is the pils base malt. its comes in around 5.4PH vs 5.7-5.8PH that typical pils with 1.5-2 lov might be expected to register.

software guides me, but the PH meter tells the truth.

If its wrong what do you do?
If it is in the 5.2-5.6 range I let it proceed. Too far off I adjust up or down.

Brunwater work fine, usually. Malts are not uniform, I had a thread talking about low pH with best Pils. It had gotten mixed with acciulated malt, pH was too low, but was 5.25 so I let it ride.

As an engineer, I know the computer predictions are only as good as the input data and assumptions. The product I worked on had an extremely large capital expense in the prototype phase for validation testing, to assure the predictions were correct.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 02:04:29 PM by hopfenundmalz »
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2016, 02:12:43 PM »
Pulled a sample of the mash this morning (big shot glass). The sample is about NOT clear...full of wort prior to vorlauf. Does this matter at all?

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2016, 02:14:11 PM »
Pulled a sample of the mash this morning (big shot glass). The sample is about NOT clear...full of wort prior to vorlauf. Does this matter at all?

try to remove all floaties (pieces of grain or husks). they can stick to probe and cause some false PH readings. other than that, you should be good to go-cloudy or not.

edit: i use cloth strainer to pour sample through into my sample glass.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 02:30:02 PM »
I have a fine mesh SS strainer that is submerged, and the small portion cup scopes the strained liquid.
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 03:10:57 PM »
I have a fine mesh SS strainer that is submerged, and the small portion cup scopes the strained liquid.

I used my meter for the first time on last brew day and ran into this problem.  I've been kicking around how to strain the chunks out.  This seems like a nice easy way to do just.  Thanks!

Paul
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Offline flbrewer

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 04:19:32 PM »
Came in at 5.10...not sure what that means though! Bru'n'water estimated 5.34 as the mash PH. I used a little more calcium chloride than I should have...nothing more than a half gram on each mash and sparge. Based on what I actually used I should have ended up at 5.31. I'm guessing it's not as low as my PH reads.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 05:03:44 PM by flbrewer »

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: PH 101
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 04:24:30 PM »
Came in at 5.10...not sure what that means though!

if that was accurate, that's pretty darn low for mash. did you attempt to bump it up with baking soda?  what kind of brew?
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest