[erockrph]

I noticed that Marshall hasn't been cross-posting new xBmt's here as often, so I went over to Brulosophy to see if anything interesting was posted, when this result really caught my eye:

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fermentation-temperature-pt-4-lager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/

Summary - a split batch of Pils was fermented with 34/70 at either 50F or 70F. The results were that A) there weren't enough correct tasters to achieve a significant result (although it was close) and B) of the 12 tasters who did identify the correct sample, 10 of them preferred the one that was brewed at warm temps.

I've been fermenting 34/70 at ambient temps in my basement in the winter, but I might be tempted to push that into the spring and fall now. I also feel validated in recommending 34/70 at warm temps over an ale yeast to all the brewers who keep asking about brewing a "Mocktoberfest" every September. This certainly removes several barriers for new brewers who want to brew lagers - you can use dry yeast, and you can ferment at ale temps. If someone can produce a good ale, there's no reason they can't produce a good lager.

[Iliff Ave]

I thought this one was very applicable to me. I have only used 34/70 for lagers up to this point and was cosidering doing some of the recipes with us05 in the summer just to do clean ale versions. Now I plan to push 34/70 a little higher with less worry. I do have limited temp control but no chest freezer.

[tommymorris]

I also find this experiment very interesting. I plan to try 34/70 at ale temps. 

[Stevie]

Maybe the drama over the "helle-ish" kits pushed him away. God help us if he markets a Pils kit with 34/70 at 70°.

[pete b]

Maybe the drama over the "helle-ish" kits pushed him away. God help us if he markets a Pils kit with 34/70 at 70°.

I actually hope he does that and enters that and the helles with kolsch yeast in NHC and wins COTY.

[denny]

It's pretty well known that 34/70 (WY2124) works at that kind of temp so there was no surprise for me.

[erockrph]

It's pretty well known that 34/70 (WY2124) works at that kind of temp so there was no surprise for me.

Not a huge surprise for me, but 70F is definitely higher than I'd ever tried or recommended with this yeast. And I've always hedged my bets saying it would be passably close at those temps. The results here are more like "undetectable, if not better" rather than "passable" at ale temps.

[HoosierBrew]

It's pretty well known that 34/70 (WY2124) works at that kind of temp so there was no surprise for me.

Not a huge surprise for me, but 70F is definitely higher than I'd ever tried or recommended with this yeast. And I've always hedged my bets saying it would be passably close at those temps. The results here are more like "undetectable, if not better" rather than "passable" at ale temps.

Yeah, I've had good luck with it staying fairly clean up to 60F back when I used tubs and frozen bottles. Wouldn't have wanted to go much warmer necessarily. Interesting.

[majorvices]

I had it get up to 80 once and while I didn't care for the results and dumped the beer I was surprised at how clean it was.

[brewinhard]

I had it get up to 80 once and while I didn't care for the results and dumped the beer I was surprised at how clean it was.

Nice.  If it was still pretty clean, then what made you decide to dump it?

[charles1968]

I love the brulosophy temp experiments, but this one needs repeating. Marshall raised the temperature of the cold-fermented batch to same temp as the other batch when gravity had fallen from 1053 to 1032. Apparent attenuation 40%, actual attenuation 32%. The "cold-fermented" lager was actually mostly fermented warm, so of course it tasted just the same as the other. In the previous two lager temperature experiments the temp was also ramped up prematurely.

[Iliff Ave]

I love the brulosophy temp experiments, but this one needs repeating. Marshall raised the temperature of the cold-fermented batch to same temp as the other batch when gravity had fallen from 1053 to 1032. Apparent attenuation 40%, actual attenuation 32%. The "cold-fermented" lager was actually mostly fermented warm, so of course it tasted just the same as the other. In the previous two lager temperature experiments the temp was also ramped up prematurely.

FWIW, I think he was just using his normal lager fermentation schedule for the 'cold fermented' batch.

[charles1968]

I love the brulosophy temp experiments, but this one needs repeating. Marshall raised the temperature of the cold-fermented batch to same temp as the other batch when gravity had fallen from 1053 to 1032. Apparent attenuation 40%, actual attenuation 32%. The "cold-fermented" lager was actually mostly fermented warm, so of course it tasted just the same as the other. In the previous two lager temperature experiments the temp was also ramped up prematurely.

FWIW, I think he was just using his normal lager fermentation schedule for the 'cold fermented' batch.

Yes, but it's not a typical fermentation schedule for lager. Most people warm up at the end for a diacetyl rest, not halfway through. Both lagers were fermented mostly warm. Arguably what the experiment shows isn't that temperature doesn't matter but that the fast fermentation schedule doesn't work.

[HoosierBrew]

Yes, but it's not a typical fermentation schedule for lager. Most people warm up at the end for a diacetyl rest, not halfway through.

Not so. Marshall is a proponent, as are many lager brewers now, of raising temp to ~ 65F after the beer has reached around 50-60% attenuation. By day 5 (for most lagers) the ester profile is set and you can raise temp to speed up fermentation and spur the yeast to get rid of diacetyl quicker. That's what he did here.

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

[charles1968]

Yes, but it's not a typical fermentation schedule for lager. Most people warm up at the end for a diacetyl rest, not halfway through.

Not so. Marshall is a proponent, as are many lager brewers now, of raising temp to ~ 65F after the beer has reached around 50-60% attenuation. By day 5 (for most lagers) the ester profile is set and you can raise temp to speed up fermentation and spur the yeast to get rid of diacetyl quicker. That's what he did here.

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/

Has it been tested experimentally vs proper cold ferment?